Small rifle primers in place of small pistol primers ?

[Empe]

.....I am being told that this is perfectly fine to do however much of what I read says otherwise . Anyone here actually make the switch ? I am asking because my LGS has the SRP but no SPP . He's an experienced reloader and I am not . He says he's made the switch often with no issues .

[DWalt]

The ONLY real issue is whether your gun has enough firing pin impact energy to ignite SR primers reliably. Otherwise, it is perfectly OK to use SR primers in place of SP. Best to prime a batch of at least ten empty cases (more is better), and see if they all go bang in your gun. If so, you are good to go. Ballistic performance differences between SP and SR primers are inconsequential. I have used SR primers for most of my handgun calibers for over 50 years. I do have a few guns which are unreliable with SR primers but will work OK with SP. I have one 9mm pistol in particular which is unusable with SRP loads. All my revolvers, and most semiautos, work fine with SRPs.

[rockquarry]

CCI-400 small rifle primers ignite 100% in the revolvers I've tried them in. Accuracy and velocity are virtually the same as when using CCI-500 small pistol primers. If your revolver hasn't been tampered with, the rifle primers should work fine. I suspect the small rifle primers will work in a 9mm pistol, but I haven't verified that yet.

[Baltimoreed11754]

Traded off all my cci spp for lpp months ago but don’t use too many small primers. I built a couple spacers to use small [rifle] primer .455 brass to shoot in my 45 colt vaqueros. I had to put the original mainsprings back in due to light strikes. But I’ve got small primer 45acp brass that run fine in my 1911s and pccs with srp’s. Haven’t changed any of my loads.

[alwslate]

This question has been asked here many times before. Buy all the SRPs you can get and don't look back. I have used many in loads from light to heavy. Given a choice for the same price I would buy SRPs over SPPs for any loads.

[9mmPatriot]

My results here:
SRP vs SPP

[1sailor]

My Beretta has no problems with SRP's and it has a D spring which is a lightened hammer spring. Haven't tried them in any other pistols yet but I'm not anticipating any issues.

[Paul in Nevada]

The short answer is, small rifle primers are essentially interchangeable with small pistol magnum primers for most manufacturers. In the case of CCI, they are confirmed to be the same product. There is some debate as to what actually defines a "magnum" primer. Terms like "brisance" or flame temperature are often mentioned but the defining feature of a magnum primer is primer cup thickness. A higher pressure cartridge requires a tougher cup to contain the pressure. That's the simple answer. Small rifle primers can be used in pistol cases with two caveats: The tougher primer cup could potentially cause unreliable ignition in pistols with light mainsprings, and all max loads should be reduced 10% and worked back up whenever components are changed.

[jculloden]

Been using Federal Match SRP for years, works fine

[Tu_S]

From my personal experience, CCI #400's with 5.0gn CFE Pistol and a 115gn FMJ performed the same as the #500's, and fired fine in my Hellcat, P365X, and M18.

Also loaded some SPP 45 ACP brass that got picked up accidently at the range, with #400's, 4gn 700-x, and 230gn FMJ, and that also shot the same as rounds loaded with #300's, not an exact comparison since it's LPP v.s. SPP, but it worked. Those were run through 1911's, where by just looking at the big dimple the firing pins put in the things I didn't expect to have a problem.

Not something I plan on doing regularly, and both rounds were loaded on the very low end of the power curve, but I currently have a lot more SRP's than pistol primers sitting around, so who knows what my inventory will look like in a few months where I might have to do a test with the #41's.

[BLUEDOT37]

Agreed, if you have enough firing pin power there's little performance advantage.

Always (re)work-up new loads whenever you change a component.

I started using the SRP for most of my guns & am saving the SPP for the others for now.

.

avg
fps
-----
1405 = ZERO 125gr JHP // P-P @ 6.4, 6.7, & 7.0gr // 1.125" // CCI-500, SPP
1409 = ZERO 125gr JHP // P-P @ 6.4, 6.7, & 7.0gr // 1.125" // CCI-400, SRP
.
1399 = ZERO 125gr JHP // AA#7 @ 8.4, 8.7, & 9.0gr // 1.125" // CCI-500, SPP
1410 = ZERO 125gr JHP // AA#7 @ 8.4, 8.7, & 9.0gr // 1.125" // CCI-400, SRP
.
1421 = ZERO 125gr JHP // L-S @ 6.4, 6.7, & 7.0gr // 1.125" // CCI-500, SPP
1429 = ZERO 125gr JHP // L-S @ 6.4, 6.7, & 7.0gr // 1.125" // CCI-400, SRP




.

[mikld]

A bit of easily found info/opinions; small rifle primers in place of small pistol primers at DuckDuckGo

[DWalt]

It astonishes me that this is still probably the most frequently asked handloading question by far and has been for many, many years. I’d think by now that everyone should know the answer. I have been using SRPs in handgun calibers for over 50 years, and others have been doing it for a long time before I did.

[flyingbrass]

Originally Posted by Empe

.....I am being told that this is perfectly fine to do however much of what I read says otherwise . Anyone here actually make the switch ? I am asking because my LGS has the SRP but no SPP . He's an experienced reloader and I am not . He says he's made the switch often with no issues .

I've done a fair amount of research about this. There are multiple reports, with pictures, of breech face erosion when using rifle primers in milder pressure handgun loads (inlcuding up to a bit above 9mm minor). IIRC, the most detailed info about this I found was in the brianenos forums.

I haven't used any yet, but I bought 5K CCI 400 small rifle primers (30ish years old) at a decent price intended for use in 9mm loads if push comes to shove. These are standard rifle primers, which have thinner cups than magnum rifle primers. Years ago, so Internet hearsay info goes, a CCI rep said that CCI small rifle and magnum pistol primers were at the time the same thing. Years have passed since, and some other info indicates that more modern CCI standard small rifle and magnum small pistol are no longer the same thing, if they ever actually were back when. Of course, you don't want to be using magnum small pistol primers either in most handgun rounds.

The main problem apart from any ignition issues with using rifle primers in pistol loads is that the rifle primer cups are harder and require a higher amount of pressure to conform to the primer pockets to seal off gas. Gas escape around overly hard primers is a cause of breech face erosion (nasty pitting).

In 9mm I use mixed range brass with probably 100 or more different headstamps and of mixed ages, so primer pockets vary considerably. I know from feel when seating primers that some pockets are very tight (some likely new with crimps), while others seat with practically no resistance. I'm concerned that the cases with looser pockets may be more prone to leaking with rifle primers. Someone using more consistent brass would have an easier time checking for any leaking problems.

My position from what I've gathered is that I'll only use small rifle primers in higher pressure handgun rounds, in my case 9mm, and only with peppier loads, not wimpy ones. I would not use a small rifle primer in something like .38 Special.

This primer sealing issue is something to be aware of. I don't know how common the problem really is, but there are enough reports to be of concern, and most people don't seem to know anything about it. If you do use rifle primers in your handgun loads, keep a close eye on your breech face.

As for pressure differences in 9mm, there usually isn't much to be discerned between different primers. Here is a video by Super Vel, certainly no lightweight in the ammo world:

YouTube

I wouldn't extrapolate the limited info from that video to mean that primers don't have much effect in ALL handgun rounds. There may be much more difference in other combos. I think that poor sealing of the primers within the pockets is by far the biggest concern.

[Dfish1247]

I’ve used them in 357 and 10mm. No issues at all. Treat them like magnum primers and you’ll be fine.

[Dvus]

I use SRPs in my 9mm loads because I am loading for major power factor and like the stronger cup. With charge weights of CFE and Autocomp way in excess of what's listed as max (no, I won't list them here, and I won't give them out through pm) with 124 gr. bullets reaching velocities between 1450 and 1500 fps out of a 5" barrel, I want every little bit of extra insurance I can get. Standard 9mm loads get standard SPPs.
BTW, please don't try to duplicate or approach these results. It takes a fully supported chamber, a compensator and other things all working in unison to do this without blowing the gun to pieces.

[ArchAngelCD]

I wasn't surprise seeing the velocity numbers but shocked at the pressure data because of the all the "common wisdom" talk over the years. IMO this is an excellent video which every reloader/handloader should see.

[DWalt]

I sure would like to see some evidence beyond your opinion that there will be gas leakage around small rifle primers used in lower pressure handgun loads. Frankly, I do not believe that for an instant.

[S&WIowegan]

I became a member of USPSA/ in 1990. That was when shooters were switching to 38 Super ammo from 45 ACP. We all learned very quickly that hot-loaded 38 Super ammo using small pistol primers was causing pierced primers. The pierced primer would sometimes stick to the firing pin causing a jammed pistol. We all switched to small rifle primers and solved the problem.

Later on USPSA lowered the power factor for open class pistols to 165 which lessened the problem. Recently open class shooters have all adopted 9mm major loads. The need for small rifle primers is now a necessity when loading 9mm major.

[Borderboss]

Originally Posted by Empe

.....I am being told that this is perfectly fine to do however much of what I read says otherwise . Anyone here actually make the switch ? I am asking because my LGS has the SRP but no SPP . He's an experienced reloader and I am not . He says he's made the switch often with no issues .

There are no issues. The SRP may be a tad hotter, so if you're using a max load, back it off and try to rebuild back up. But I've seen plenty of testing that the energy from SRP and SPP is pretty much the same.

Where you will see a difference is the cup thickness. This is to prevent piercing by the firing pin in pretty hot loads. As was mentioned by S&WIowegan, we started using the SRP with .38 Super major loads in the early 1990s because of possible firing pin piercing, not because the SPP wouldn't ignite the hot loads properly.

So the main issue for you will be whether or not you pistols will ignite the SRP properly because of cup thickness.

[DWalt]

Back when Winchester was loading the 9x23 Winchester cartridge (as I remember the peak chamber pressure was around 50 KPSI), they were using small rifle primers. They sent me 250 primed cases to test. I still have some of them. I was getting MVs in the upper 1400 ft/sec range with 124 grain FMJ bullets from a 5” M1911 barrel.

I just thought of another related war story. Back in the mid-1960s I bought a new Spanish Llama .38 Special revolver. For some reason, I was getting a high percentage of primer punctures, almost certainly somehow related to the firing pin. The Llama had the firing pin in the frame, not on the hammer. I switched to using SR primers, no more pierced primers after that.

[Paul in Nevada]

Originally Posted by flyingbrass

I've done a fair amount of research about this. There are multiple reports, with pictures, of breech face erosion when using rifle primers in milder pressure handgun loads (inlcuding up to a bit above 9mm minor). IIRC, the most detailed info about this I found was in the brianenos forums.

No offense but this is nonsense. An SRP is just an SPM with a different label on the box.

[flyingbrass]

The responses here mostly deal with using small rifle primers in warm to very hot (9mm major) loads. Does anyone have firsthand experience using them in lower pressure loads, say .38 Special target loads or even wimpy 9mm (<125 PF)?

Searching online will turn up posts of some people having issues with breech face erosion using rifle primers in lighter handgun loads. This doesn't mean that everyone will, but it's something to realize has happened and you might want to keep an eye out for problems. That's what I was trying to convey. The question of rifle primers in handgun loads does not necessarily have a simple yes or no answer. The answer is likely conditional.

If I were to load 9mm major I'd use magnum pistol or standard rifle primers due to the thicker cups that are ideal for that kind of situation. They aren't necessarily so great for someone loading light plinking loads, and in fact could cause problems from not enough pressure.

Other things can cause breech face erosion. As one example, batches of Winchester LP primers over the years have been prone to cracking. I'll refrain from providing any details here, lest I rile up Winchester fans.

Here is a video by Bolt Action Reloader testing some pistol primers in 6.5 Creedmoor loads:

YouTube

[Paul in Nevada]

I think I see your issue here. It would be safe to use SRP's as a substitute for SRM's. Using SPP for rifle loads is a different issue. Standard SPP's are not designed to contain rifle level pressures.

[DWalt]

Originally Posted by Paul in Nevada

I think I see your issue here. It would be safe to use SRP's as a substitute for SRM's. Using SPP for rifle loads is a different issue. Standard SPP's are not designed to c9ntain rifle level pressures.

SPPs can be used in light cast bullet rifle loads safely. But only SRPs should be used in heavier loads. While LPPs can be used in very light rifle loads I would not do it. Dimensionally, they are a little shorter than LRPs

[BLUEDOT37]

Originally Posted by Dvus

With charge weights of CFE and Autocomp way in excess of what's listed as max
(no, I won't list them here, and I won't give them out through pm)
with 124 gr. bullets reaching velocities between 1450 and 1500 fps out of a 5" barrel...

.

OMG, we're all Big Boys now & it's easily found by doing a search, but I previously read the article.

.

Making Major with Hodgdon CFE Pistol Powder - Handguns

.

[len917]

I use them for 9mm & .38 spec--no problem at all.

[wrkerr]

I’ve only tried them in 357 magnum. The Federal, Winchester, and CCI worked just fine. I DID have problems with Wolf brand (Russian). They are much harder and I had several rounds misfire. A second strike usually worked, but no more Wolf srp in handguns.

[mmb617]

My personal experience with SRP in my M&P 9mm pistols was that Federal #205M and CCI #400 both worked with no problems but both CCI #41 and CCI BR4 did not fire reliably for me.

Things like this are why I keep records of all my loads. If I need to substitute in the future I don't have to remember what worked or didn't, I can look it up.

[Luke Duke]

I have 2K Remington 6 1/2 that I've been questioning using for 357 Mag loads. So I find this quite an informative topic. After some research these primers they are designed for 40 CUP cartridges. So I'm using them.

[Green Frog]

I’d be afraid to depend on them in my old Fred Schmidt PPC gun with the super reduced main spring for light DA use, other than that, I’d expect them to be fine in everything else from I frame 32s to various K frames and semi autos. I wouldn’t depend on them for EDC/SD, but they generally carry factory loads anyway. Fine for range use and even light competition since I don’t get serious these days.

Froggie