45 long colt wads or filler
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Fishinfool
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Generally, no. Most handgun powders are not very position sensitive.
Larry
Larry
rockquarry
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What sort of wad are you talking about? A grease wad, cardboard wad, felt wad, etc.? By "over powder" are you speaking of keeping powder in place? There are other factors to consider here like pressure and maybe "ringing" a barrel.
I've used grease wads in .357 Magnum (and I think .44 Magnum) but that's been some years ago. Wads reduced leading significantly but there are better and easier ways to reduce leading. I don't recall an accuracy improvement but that may be possible.
I've worked with grease wads in at least one straight walled rifle case (.405 Winchester) with a degradation in accuracy. I don't know about the other wads. Maybe they work but still consider the safety factor and the chance of ringing a barrel.
I'd ask about this on the castboolit website.
I've used grease wads in .357 Magnum (and I think .44 Magnum) but that's been some years ago. Wads reduced leading significantly but there are better and easier ways to reduce leading. I don't recall an accuracy improvement but that may be possible.
I've worked with grease wads in at least one straight walled rifle case (.405 Winchester) with a degradation in accuracy. I don't know about the other wads. Maybe they work but still consider the safety factor and the chance of ringing a barrel.
I'd ask about this on the castboolit website.
I would avoid using a wad. A old bullseye shooting procedure is too add a wisp of dacron fiber on top of the powder to hold it in the back of the case. The dacron will burn completely. You should be able to find dacron in fabric section of a store (Walmart maybe?).
Never used wads but used Dacron and flash paper disc over mostly Unique in large volume cases. Small volume of smokeless in big case can cause erratic groups caused by uneven combustion.
Never used anything as guard against leading other than gas checks and lube.
Never used anything as guard against leading other than gas checks and lube.
rockquarry
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He said wads, but perhaps he meant fillers.
ArchAngelCD
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I never used any type of wad in handgun ammo so I can't comment on accuracy increase. Good thread though, I'm curious on what others have found.
One thing is certain- use of wads and case fillers are a certain way to increase your chamber pressures up to and including dangerous levels. It would help to know what load and components you are using.
Shooting handgun straight walled cases with filler is not a big concern, but I agree with those above that solid wads could possibly lodge in barrel. Not sure if one can cause a bulge, but I don't take the chance. I have Puflon and use it regularly with handgun calibers and small amount of powder to produce consistent SDs, but shooting 45-70, 45-75, and 45-90, I use a quarter of a square sheet of cheap single ply toilet paper, just lightly pushed down on the powder with tweezers. One roll will last for years.
My go to solution is start shooting Trail Boss with these lightly loaded rounds and you will never need filler for any caliber. People think that this powder is too expensive, but it will load some calibers at about the same price as other powders, plus the added price is worth it when one is experiencing position sensitive loads. Being light-weight bulk powder, it usually nearly fills the case and gives some of the lowest SDs of any load I can find.
If one is going to experiment with fillers, start at the bottom of the loading range and work up until a desired standard velocity is achieved.
My go to solution is start shooting Trail Boss with these lightly loaded rounds and you will never need filler for any caliber. People think that this powder is too expensive, but it will load some calibers at about the same price as other powders, plus the added price is worth it when one is experiencing position sensitive loads. Being light-weight bulk powder, it usually nearly fills the case and gives some of the lowest SDs of any load I can find.
If one is going to experiment with fillers, start at the bottom of the loading range and work up until a desired standard velocity is achieved.
Hair Trigger
US Veteran
A case filler, something like dacron "fuzz" that has no resistance inside the case, but takes up space and keeps the powder in place against the base, won't hurt a thing. Dacron will completely combust but adds no extra force to the burning powder charge. Use only enough to hold the powder charge in place.
Here's an article you may enjoy, related to light loads in large volume cases.
Light loads in large cases can explode (2007 update) - Reload Ammo | Founded By M.D. Smith in 1996
rockquarry
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Regarding the articles cited, consider reading them but don't take them as factual until you've done enough followup on this to convince yourself the information is good.
If you have a sincere interest in all this, consult with the castboolit folks on their website forum. The Cast Bullet Association website forum may offer additional help, but I'm not sure. The first website will be among your very best sources for information. It could be some work to find what you're looking for. Many have dabbled in this but there are a few hardcore adherents that know the subject.
I think you will find more hardcore adherents on this Forum with regards to S&W calibers than you give credit to. I am one of them there hardcore adherents to S&W calibers, having 40 years reloading experience!!!!!
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rockquarry
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Then the "hardcore adherents" should respond. I'm neither denigrating nor giving credit. My comments were based solely on the responses I've read since the beginning of this thread. Perhaps I overlooked an expert opinion and I certainly owe an apology if that occurred. I'm not sufficently knowlegeable on the subject(s) to give definitive answers and it appears others aren't much more experienced.
That's why I suggested other sources/ websites. The suggestion was intended as a source of information, not a personal affront.
Funflyer
Member
I'm no expert by any stretch, but I've done enough testing in 45Colt to conclude that a wad over low charges of fast burning powders will tighten groups and prevent those pesky fliers. At least it does with a tiny 4gn charge of 700X or 5gn Clays. I use a double thickness of fake nylon felt and there's no worry about any left to stick in the barrel because it melts quickly into nothing. I also made a ram-rod to set the wad 1/8" forward of the powder charge for a bit of slump.
Do you make/cut the wads yourself or buy them pre-cut?
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Rpg
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I think a lot of the practice of using a filler over smokeless powder was developed at the turn of the last century (early 20th century) as huge British black powder cartridges were loaded with smokeless powder leaving a lot of space with the position sensitive early smokeless powder.
Today, efforts to load these cartridges with smokeless powder very often use a bit of Dacron fluff over the powder to improve ignition.
Ross Seifried described this technique in a series in The Double Gun Journal. That publication closed its doors recently.
Today, efforts to load these cartridges with smokeless powder very often use a bit of Dacron fluff over the powder to improve ignition.
Ross Seifried described this technique in a series in The Double Gun Journal. That publication closed its doors recently.
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Are you having accuracy issues with the cartridge and load combinations you are using? If not, I'd say using a filler or wad may not be needed.
Dacron was what I was advised to use but never did as a Magnum primer was another option in light loads.
Never had the need to use it in handguns... yet.
Would also be curious as to any accuracy improvements.
We use 45 Colt in a BlackHawk and a Win '92.
44 Mag in a 629 and Win '94.
Grandkids will appreciate learning with light loads.
TrailBoss is great stuff.
458 Win Mag light loads of 3031 and our most often used 4198.
With 50gr and 55gr of 4198 I use a LR Magnum primer.
At 60gr up to the low 70gr charges I use regular LR primers.
Bullet is a 300gr jacketed Sierra.
Hope the 458 WM above is useful if you move up to the
Adult calibers.
The progression from 50gr-70gr+ is for teaching how to shoot a No.1H before going up to the 500gr bullet weights.
In four decades of range fun, no one has asked for another.
Never had the need to use it in handguns... yet.
Would also be curious as to any accuracy improvements.
We use 45 Colt in a BlackHawk and a Win '92.
44 Mag in a 629 and Win '94.
Grandkids will appreciate learning with light loads.
TrailBoss is great stuff.
458 Win Mag light loads of 3031 and our most often used 4198.
With 50gr and 55gr of 4198 I use a LR Magnum primer.
At 60gr up to the low 70gr charges I use regular LR primers.
Bullet is a 300gr jacketed Sierra.
Hope the 458 WM above is useful if you move up to the
Adult calibers.
The progression from 50gr-70gr+ is for teaching how to shoot a No.1H before going up to the 500gr bullet weights.
In four decades of range fun, no one has asked for another.
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