I see Garmin is getting into the Shooting
Sports with their new Xero C1 Pro Chronograph
using Diopter technology.

Looks promising. Check it out on their site.

$600, not for the weak or meek!

Wonder how long before a diopter chronograph
shows up on Smart Phones?

Now that is handy. I don't like how the lab radar is so fussy. I wonder how this will work under real world conditions.

How is it "fussy"?

I've had six chronographs, including the LabRadar, in the last forty or so years and used all of them considerably, often chronographing well over a hundred rounds per session. All had quirks but nothing of significance.

Seeings how this is also a doppler radar, I don't expect it to be any less "fussy" than the LabRadar.
It has a smaller antenna and less power but also does not attempt to track the projectile continuously out to 100 yards.
Guess we will find out from the first few users reports.
It sure looks handier to set up than the LabRadar mostly because it's smaller.
It better be good given the price.
When it comes to fussy I would rate the optical chronos at #1
Then the magnetic and radars.
Their operation is so different it's hard to compare "ease" but once setup and running the Magnetospeed is the easiest of the bunch to use while shooting.
I'd use it more often if it didn't have serious limitations as to which weapons it will work with (no double barrels, pistols, or short revolvers).
And forget shooting for groups while chronographing too.
I have fitted it to a 3" 696 but that's pushing it (see picture).
They all have shortcomings as rockquarry has mentioned but the LabRadar is the only one I use now as it has the fewest of those shortcomings and gives the most data.
It's the only current chrono that will give you the real BC of your load at a given range (without setting up additional equipment downrange).
I don't see the Garmin doing that.

There are a couple of reviews already on the Tube:
Velocity comparison of the Garmin Xero C1 and Magnetospeed v3
(They only differ by 2 fps!)

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__________________
NEMO
"Everything 44"

I see one in my very near future. I've been wanting a LabRadar but couldn't find one in stock.

Over on "another site" Labradars are going for fire sale prices. They showed up yesterday after Garmin's product was released on the 19th. You might spend $375 to $400 for a Labradar with assorted add-ons. No tax and possibly shipping included from the private party sales.

Garmin entered the shooting market a while ago. They have a slick device for clay shooters too. It will tell you where your shot cloud went in relation to the bird. We have one at the club and it's very informative.

IMNHO, Garmin is getting set to eat Labradar's lunch! However, I plan to keep my Labradar; at least for the near term. A buddy ordered a Garmin. He can be the early adopter (guinea pig). Besides, the Labradar is big and orange. I'll be less likely to lose it.

Except for quicker setup, the Lab Radar has nothing over the much older Oehler P35. I've had a P35 for over thirty years, but havent used it since buying the LabRadar eight or ten years ago.

Oh baby I need one of these..already signed up for available notification!

And here I am still using an old F1 Shooting Chrony, the red one! I do like the concept of a radar chronograph and Garmin is now bringing competition to the radar chronograph market which is a good thing.

__________________
VCDL, GOA, NRA

I’ve seen several videos of Xero C1 Pro
Chronograph now. I didn’t realize how
small it is (3.03" x 2.38" x 1.36").

That would be convenient to carry
and use.

Looking forward to seeing more reviews.

I have found Garmin the most difficult of hand held GPS's to get useful info out of. The Magellan 315 the most useful for strategic thinkers. I am still on Crony foldup but they closed business.

__________________
"Don't Give Up the Ship"

I'm intrigued. I like that you don't have to go forward of the firing line for setup or adjustment. Additionally, in the summer it is really hot here. If I wait until evening and shoot in the shaded area I prefer, it wreaks havoc with my traditional chrono.

I've been really tempted by the Labradar, but haven't ponied up the money. This might seal the deal for a doppler chrono.

If was still spending much time working up loads, would gladly pay the freight for one of these if it passes limited time test (reliable). Especially for the ease of set up and transport. Just thinking of all those years using an F1 makes me wince. While it worked most the time, a huge pita to set up, adjust and pack up.

Ok gents, insert sad face lol. I searched everywhere, not in stock including Garmin which states 5-8 weeks. Ummm, ok, its not released yet I'm thinking.

So I called Garmin. Yes Mike we released it a short time ago, IT SOLD OUT IN 2 DAYS! She went on to say we never expected this! It was crazy.

Maybe in time for Christmas I hope, makes a fantastic present to myself!

I just ordered one on the Garmin site. This thing is too cool not to have it. I'm going to like knowing the true velocity of some of the ammo I'm shooting in the guns I'm shooting them in.

So did I. Tired of setting up the other stuff lol.

I have a tenancy to retain that which I purchase and I intend to keep my LabRadar as it meet my needs and has minimum problems. I am on several shooting forum and people are dumping their LabRadars at firesale prices. Garmin may have a better product, but over the years, their "hunter grade" GPS units have been substandard in my opinion to the competition on the market. If anyone needs a chrono, you may want to look at a used LabRadar, the prices are crazy low on some of the places I see them listed for sale. The new hot blonde is in town and folks are dumping the current gal to go after the new hottie.

If LabRadar works for you, that's great. I looked at it a while back and found it just too big to deal with, at least in my opinion.

I have an Oehler 35P That has never been out of the case. This new Garmin looks pretty good to me, so much easier to set up. I am going to start developing loads for my small bore rifles and I am wondering, is it worth the money to replace the 35P......Any opinions and or advice is appreciated.

__________________
GARY
SWCA #2897, SWHF #436

Gary I have 2 already, Caldwell G2 which by the way works great, its just a pain to drag out and setup as is the other one a CE prochrono which worked well too even after my late wife creased the top of it with a round lol. I'll fire sale the G2 when the Garmin shows up, the CE I'm keeping as a memento.
I reload everything and need to update my xcell spreadsheet, the Garmin is the hot ticket in my opinion and I can't wait!

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The Oehler 35P works as well as any chronograph you can buy and provides all the useful features you need. It's just slower and more inconvenient to set up at the range.

If doing your load work ups at busy time on a public range, the ability to easily set up while not needing to go in front of the firing line would be significant advantage. While a F1 provides/ed everything i need, am usually alone at range when it was being used, and had plenty of time.

Reloading Enthusiast Service Announcement.
Order from Cabelas/Bass Pro to “Storepickup”
and get a discount. See picture below.

Hope this helps someone out.

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I'd like to hear real world experiences with the Garmin before deciding.

I have owned and used an Oehler 35P for over 30 years.......I see NO NEED to replace it with anything else.

__________________
S&W Accumulator

I agree, I'm older now and not that interested in being a guinea pig. I let others be on the bleeding edge of technology because I have been burned and bled enough.

__________________
VCDL, GOA, NRA

I'm sure I'll wind up buying a Garmin at some point. It scratches a lot of itches. But then, I've scratched a lot of chronograph itches over the years.

It all started for me with "affordable" optical chronographs. I didn't want to shell out the clams for an Oehler so I bought a Pact. It was unreliable and then died. Pact sent me some new parts. It never was right after that. So I bought a Shooting Chrony. It always worked unless the light was bad. Still it was a hassle to set up downrange. And I was unfulfilled . . . .

Next up was the Magnetospeed. Woo Hoo! Do it all from behind the firing line. Never mind that it wouldn't work on short barrel handguns. Never mind that the mass on the barrel affected point of impact. Worse yet, it affected group size. Depending on barrel weight the influence could be substantial. Then, the attachment clasp broke and Magnetospeed said sorry, parts not available, you can buy a new "bayonet." Phooey on that, so I put the "bayonet" money toward a LabRadar.

LabRadar works fairly well, but it's picky about setup. Doesn't always catch the bullet. Interferes with other LabRadars on the firing line. (fixable by changing channels.) User interface is awful. It's better if you use your phone to run it, but when the phone sleeps it loses the connection and you have to restart the whole process. I think a 7 year old hobbyist could have designed a better UI.

Now Garmin has my attention. It appears to solve a lot of my historical woes. I'm sure it will have its own warts which will become evident as people drink the Garmin Koolaide. Yeah, one of those Koolaide drinkers will be me - eventually. At least chronographs have evolved over the years, unlike firearms where there's not much new under the sun.

The 35P gives you 2 velocity readings for each shot. Creating a "proof channel to verify the shot is valid........None of that radar stuff will do that.

__________________
S&W Accumulator

Well a few reviews of the new Xero C1
Pro Chronograph have been showing
up on other Forums.

The Enthusiasts that have used the Xero
have positive experiences with it, so
that’s a good sign.

One shooter said set up was so fast to
get data; point at target, shoot, and
data can go to your smartphone.

Another shooter commented other makers
of Chronographs might just as well throw
in the towel.

Appears the Xero is hit.

Wonder how it would do in indoor 25 yd range?

I hope well because that's how I'll use mine when I finally get it.

Just ordered one. It is scheduled to arrive between Fri and Mon.

I'll let you know how it works out. It just so happens I have a few loads that need worked up.

how do labradars and the new Garmin compare to the magnetospeed?

__________________
NRA RSO

Last week saw a NIB Lab Radar with a roll around case and tripod on Marketplace for about $150 less than it should have been. Now I know why.
The seller was probably kicking himself.

On "another forum" used LabRadars continue to go for low prices. Reports from Garmin users are extremely favorable. I have not read of any real complaints. Almost too good to be true, which of course, makes me skeptical.

I'll see how my buddy's Garmin works out before joining the LabRadar exodus. If I can sell my LabRadar for $300 I will just consider the remaining $300 for a Garmin as an upgrade fee. Not sure I'll even be able to get 3 bills for it right now. I expect LabRadar's business has gone down the drain. New ones surely won't fetch the current $625 tag. It could be that once everyone that wants a LabRadar snaps them up at ~ 3 bills, they might creep back up to $425 or so. That is unless LabRadar drops their price to that range.

This is an interesting case of Econ 101. Supply and demand. It shows how effective competition can improve the price to performance ratio.

Did you order it directly from Garmin and they're promising it that quickly? If you're getting it from another source, please PM me with where you were able to source it with that quick a turn time. Thanks!

I'm surprised he found it as well as I have looked everywhere. I ordered from Garmin, maybe before Christmas.
I also listed my Caldwell G2, used twice and like brand new for $60 less than I bought it for last year....not a single inquiry LOL. May have to give it to Goodwill lol.

Yeah, competition in the market place
is good.

Those Old Chronograph makers I believe
got complacent or don’t have the resources
to improve their products. They will
probably get crushed.

I don’t need a Chronograph right now, so
I’m going to sit back and watch if this
spurs something new and lowers price.

I know one thing, I definitely won’t buy
any old existing Chronograph or something used.

An iPhone with a chronograph would
be cool. Could you imagine the radiation
it would emit then.

I work at a high-volume Garmin dealer. I ordered one on October 24. ETA is December 5.

Today got an email from LabRadar (even though I already own one) promoting their "holiday sale".
They are now $500 until December 31st.
Be interesting to see if that price doesn't become permanent.

__________________
NEMO
"Everything 44"

I think not. It’ll go down.

Garmin is eating LabRadar's lunch!

Oehler is a great chronograph
I keep mine set up on a tripod and have color-coded the plugs making it very easy to set up in just two or three minutes

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It arrived via fedex this afternoon. I'll see how it works on Sunday. I doubt I'll have the rifle loads worked up I really want to test, but I'll still see how it works with a couple of handguns.

"Be interesting to see if that price doesn't become permanent."
What I really meant by that statement is:
I wonder if the LabRadar holiday sale will last longer than December 31st.
$500 may be getting close to their cost to manufacture.

Remember the LabRadar and the Garmin are somewhat different instruments.
The LabRadar has a much bigger antenna which (I suspect) is focused in tighter beam and a more powerful transmitter judging by how fast it can chew a set of normal batteries.
The LabRadar will still be useful to the long range shooter who wants to know how the velocity tracks all the way down range.
The Garmin looks to be a great solution for those who want an easy muzzle velocity but I don't think it's signal is going to make it 100 yards and back after bouncing off that tiny bullet base.

Here is a short PDF example from an indoor range of the data you can get from each shot off a LabRadar.
Notice how the SNR dropped off as the bullet approached the end wall and the interference it created.

Attached Files

17in_445_Encore_Trueshot305_30gr_IMR4227_Track.pdf (25.5 KB, 30 views)

__________________
NEMO
"Everything 44"

Range report added.

Good news, ordered direct from Garmin Oct 25, received email late last night that unit has shipped, be here Friday!

A friend brought his new Garmin chronograph to the club last Sunday. He just set it on the bench next to him and it picked up every shot. I'm impressed. The app doesn't work like the LabRadar in the sense that you don't "run" the chronograph from the app. It's primarily used for batch mode data downloads and processing. You run the chronograph with the buttons on top of it. This is simple enough since they're on top and the chronograph is in reach. This is unlike the LabRadar which is out by the muzzle and the buttons are on its face. Pushing them can cause the LabRadar to move around. I'd say the app is essential for using the LabRadar (clunky as the app is) but not required for the Garmin.

I don't know exactly what an app is, but apparently I've never needed one to operate my LabRadar for the last 7 or 8 years or so. I don't recall it moving around and I use it regularly.

I got the same email, but noticed that UPS hasn't picked it up yet. I'm guessing it won't get here until next week because UPS will pick it up today, not much will happen tomorrow because of the holiday, and UPS doesn't usually deliver over the weekend.

All that said, I'm glad it's on the way!