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Old 02-11-2024, 12:11 PM
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Default A few brass questions

Good morning!

I'm currently in the process of sorting brass from a recent purchase. During this tedious, but worthwhile process, a few questions came to mind. BTW, I am sorting the brass by headstamp in order to facilitate processing and segregating certain headstamps for certain bullets.

First, 9mm that is manufactured at Lake City by Winchester, does this ammo bear the traditional WIN headstamp or WMA?

Second, is the 9mm manufactured at Lake City have either staked or crimped primers?

Third, most headstamps I recognize, however, I am a little confused on two. Who is manufacturing ammo that is headstamped: GFL and CBC?

As always, thanks in advance for your help!
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Old 02-11-2024, 12:21 PM
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WMA is Winchester 's military headstamp. So far as crimped primers, just look at them when you check the headstamp. If they are crimped it will be obvious!

GFL is Fiocchi and is excellent brass, as good as there is. CBC is imported from Venezuela I believe and often is considered junk because of internal issues. You can throw CBC away with a good conscience!

I am really anal about brass and will collect/use everything I find except CBC and AMERC, those both get thrown away!
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Old 02-11-2024, 08:37 PM
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CBC is Brazilian mostly always Magtech branded ammunition stateside. I fully agree with the above poster about it being more hassle than it's worth. The primer pockets are tight and don't want to release or accept repriming. If you run a progressive loader CBC will make you curse. Your loaded ammo will also look horrible due to the wall thickness of the stuff.

I've seen Winchester military ammunition stamped WCC and WMA. Crimp is easy enough to discern by looking.

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Old 02-11-2024, 09:05 PM
Chuck Edwards Chuck Edwards is offline
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WCC and WMA brass gets thrown in a container for when my 9x19 brass supply gets so low that I need it. I've got most of a five-gallon bucket of commercial 9x19 brass so that probably won't happen anytime soon. OTOH, the ammo using it is pretty good stuff.

I respectfully disagree with the folks above about CBC brass. The primer pockets are sometimes tighter and slightly deeper than other brands, but they load fine on my 550. The case walls seem to be thicker but they chamber fine even in the tight chambers of my Walther P99Cs.

Norma 9x19 brass has smaller-than-standard flash holes. My understanding is that standard decapping pins get stuck in them. One company - RCBS? not sure - makes decapping pins specifically for Norma brass. I toss it regretfully, because Norma brass is top notch.
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Old 02-11-2024, 10:31 PM
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I'm also a brass sorter.
Especially with 9mm, there's so much of it at my club, I can be choosy.
As said AMERC, Norma and CBC are always trashed as well as any foreign military stuff. Also toss Fiocci, S&B and all other European.
I do find a lot of PMC, which is GTG.
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Old 02-11-2024, 10:51 PM
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I like 9mm because it is very easy to load for and I got a lot of 9mm brass because I was a cop when LE started going to 9mm. My Department as well as others will go to the Range and leave piles of once fired 9mm brass.

So no reason to load bad brass. I prefer Federal, Remington and Winchester brass.
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Old 02-11-2024, 11:12 PM
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I don't know the current situation, but formerly there was NO 9mm military ammunition EVER manufactured at Lake City. I think it is all made at Winchester's new facility in Oxford MS. For absolute certain, the new M1152 and M1153 9mm rounds are currently being manufactured by Winchester at Oxford. Before that, the M882 9mm round was all made at Winchester-East Alton. I don't believe M882 is still being made, but I could be wrong. I have seen the East Alton Military 9mm manufacturing area many times. I have not had any problems with reloading any CBC brass. To me, it seems no different from anyone else's, but the primer pockets are a little tight.

Last edited by DWalt; 02-11-2024 at 11:47 PM.
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Old 02-12-2024, 01:29 AM
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Thats funny, S&B made alot of Hornadys brass that they used in their factory loaded ammunition. S&B is as good as it gets. Norma has never been a problem for me but I havent used any of their 9mm brass.
CBC, Amerc, GFL, Fiocchi (same as GFL) all work jist fine for me. In fact I still am loading some GFL 44mag brass even after the 20+ loadings already on it.
The worst Ive ever used is Perfecta stamped brass.

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Old 02-12-2024, 01:58 AM
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I don't pre-sort 9mm brass, but I do look at the headstamp of each case as it goes into the Dillon. AMERC goes into the recycle bin along with anything that looks like it has too enthusiastic of a primer crimp. The quick headstamp check also helps me find the odd .380 that gets in once in a while. There have also been some strange ones turning up lately that have a step on the inside of the case. I don't remember the headstamp off the top of my head but they get tossed also.

I do the same thing when I load .45 AARP to cull out the small primer brass. Eventually I'll have enough of it to justify changing the press.
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Old 02-12-2024, 02:03 AM
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About 4 years ago, I was coming across a lot of 9mm with crimped primers as range pick-ups. It was all marked "WIN 9mm LUGER" and identical in headstamp to my other Winchester brass.
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Old 02-12-2024, 02:52 AM
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"45 AARP"!!!!! LOLOLOL!
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Old 02-12-2024, 06:46 AM
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I have brass from Magtech/CBC in 44/40. It loads and shoots just fine. If anyone has ever loaded the 44/40 round you know how particular that chambering is about brass.
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Old 02-12-2024, 08:31 AM
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Wife and I shoot 9mm USPSA. I buy range brass, every head stamp you can imagine are usually in the buckets. However, I load on a Dillon Super 1050 which has a primer crimp station so that takes care of that issue. All brass is also rollsized first as well eliminating any possible case issues (best investment for us).
Now the caveat which I found. Norma 9mm brass has a very small flash hole. The Dillon die will not punch out that primer and hence machine locks up at the swage station, insert PITA. Solution was to replace the Dillon sizing die with my Lee die that uses the Squirrel Daddy primer pin. No more issues. Shoot em all.
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Old 02-12-2024, 10:18 AM
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I think I am on the other end of the spectrum. I pick up range brass, wash it, reprime it and load it. Good enough for IDPA and USPSA accuracy and reliable feeding.
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Old 02-12-2024, 10:34 AM
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About the smaller than standard flash holes: Lyman dies use a primer punch pin that will work (my old dies have them and so does a recent production .308 neck sizing die) and Lee makes a special depriming die with a suitable pin for $14.
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Old 02-12-2024, 11:06 AM
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WCC is Western Cartridge Company and the headstamp of WCC with two numbers (year of manufacture) is a Mil cartridge. Mil cartridges require date of manufacture and primer pocket crimp.
LC headstamp is Lake City with two numbers, a Mil cartridge.
I don't encounter many of the above in 9mm.
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Old 02-12-2024, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldman10mm View Post
WCC is Western Cartridge Company and the headstamp of WCC with two numbers (year of manufacture) is a Mil cartridge. Mil cartridges require date of manufacture and primer pocket crimp.
LC headstamp is Lake City with two numbers, a Mil cartridge.
I don't encounter many of the above in 9mm.
If you have 9mm cases with an LC headstamp, I would like to see a picture.
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Old 02-12-2024, 12:25 PM
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Sorry, but the few (very few) I had were s****ped long ago because I don't like dealing with crimped primer pockets. Haven't seen any since, maybe they were a special or test run ? At the Akron gun show years ago there was a bag of 9mm headstamped LC PROOF, didn't get them but should have as a curiosity item.
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Old 02-12-2024, 03:45 PM
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To avoid issues, you may want to also look at the inside when you are checking the head stamps. Also a great idea is to run a magnet across them. I don't remember which one of these (it has been a while since I posted a report on finding these) but one of the 2 on the left was actually coated steel.



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Old 02-12-2024, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajgunner View Post
To avoid issues, you may want to also look at the inside when you are checking the head stamps. Also a great idea is to run a magnet across them. I don't remember which one of these (it has been a while since I posted a report on finding these) but one of the 2 on the left was actually coated steel.



The last picture is the thing I look for in 9mm, the reduced case capacity from the stepped cases is a concern for me and that stuff gets tossed. Norma and the others with tiny primer holes also get tossed. I run pretty much anything else with a fair degree of equanimity.
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Old 02-12-2024, 08:44 PM
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NatoReloading.com has some great info on 9mm brass. Worth a read.
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Old 02-15-2024, 08:18 PM
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Not the one I was looking for but,

Vintage Outdoors: LIST OF AMMO MANUFACTURERS HEADSTAMPS PAST AND PRESENT
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