Are nickel cases any better than brass cases? I do seem to find more cracked nickel cases than I do brass cases. I tend to separate them out of my brass cases when reloading. For some reason a couple of nickel cases in a box of brass cases just does not look right. Anyone else do this?

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

I too find nickel plated cases to be a bit more brittle than brass.

I like them to segregate and ID ammo though like subsonic 9mm, or hot 357s.

No mixing though-

I’ve found that nickel plated brass does not hold up as well as regular brass. Most of my failures have been cracks as well. I once a batch of nickel 45-70 brass that the plating was abnormally thick.

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Dave
Regulators mount up!

Nickel cases amongst the brass would bug me too! But then, I keep my brass in lots. A given lot has the same firing history and came from the same original bag of brass. I "may" be obsessive . . . .

I've had some nickel cases that lasted long enough to wear down to the underlying brass. That's not the norm, though. In general I find that nickel revolver cases split at the mouth after just a handful of reloadings.

I tend to accumulate empty brass until I have several hundred to work with (clean, size, etc...). I don't really keep a count on loadings per case. Just pitch the cracked ones when I find them. A lot of the brass is once fired, as when I am policing up my brass, folks find out I am a reloader so they give me their once fired brass.

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

I’ve read that nickel cases wear out carbide dies much quicker than brass. How true is this? I have no idea.

I am sure someone will let us know if it is true or not.

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

That reeks of Internet wisdom.

I hadn't heard that one, but do find they seem to crack easier. They sure are "purdy" though.

Sounds like an old wives tale to me. I’ve never noticed any difference in the years I’ve reloaded.

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James
On the Llano Estacado

I do separate the Brass from Nickel, however I do keep all the Nickel case's for all of my 25's & 625's, and it's really easy to identify revolver from auto ammo, and it looks good too,,,, I have been doing this for years and quite honestly I don't see a difference of life expectancy in either.

.38 brass on the other hand is a different story, have always seen more split case's in both brass and nickel, probably because there's more of them around at least there use to be back in the day.

I separate my nickel and brass cases before reloading.

Nickel is "slicker" to extract - which is one reason it is so commonly used for SD ammo.

But plain brass is softer than nickel plated brass, so in general, it can be resized more times without "work hardening" - which is what leads to cracking.

So plain brass cases can generally be reloaded more times than nickel plated cases in my experience.

Which is "better" depends on what you're reloading for.

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Send lawyers, guns & money...

I think when we have a volume of experience, we can come to some reasonable conclusions but I would caution sometimes that the conclusions are not always correct, and I’ll attempt to show that.

.327 Federal is a fairly new cartridge and so it’s been in the last 10-15 years that I’ve gathered all of my experience with it. All of my brass has come from ATK, or the former ATK, which is to say that’s it has come from Speer Gold Dot and American Eagle factory ammo. And this is a 45k psi peak cartridge. With all of this modern brass and all of it from THE same source, I can tell you for certain with the ATK/Federal/Speer .327 brass, the nickel absolutely splits more than the brass. Hands down, not close.

In .38 Special I have nearly 40 years of brass and it’s whole lot of brass. As .38 Special was the first metallic I’ve ever loaded… boy, I’ve loaded a LOT of this cartridge. Many tens of thousands for sure. My R-P nickel brass is split city. My Winchester nickel .38 Special rarely splits, and I’m quite sure that my supply of each is mostly many decades old.

More than ten years ago I came in to a huge supply of S&B brass in .38 Special, non-nickel, and I can tell you that this stuff splits very easily.

I also use a good bit of .357 Magnum brass that is nickel… again, a lot of Winchester here, and much of this brass I’ve definitely had more than 20 years and it’s very rare that any of it splits.

My conclusion based on what I’ve seen is that if I were buying new brass and looking for longevity, I would pick brass over nickel if the comparison were same headstamp. But my answer changes if the offer is a great brand of nickel versus a budget brand of brass.

As for the old “wears out dies quicker…”, I can only tell you that I have quite literally used ONE single carbide sizing die for every round of .38 and .357 Magnum I have ever made, and this goes back to the fantastic summer of 1989. That’s a Lee carbide sizing die, and it’s still doing a fine job. While I cannot specifically tell you how many rounds of .38 and .357 have been through it, I do know for certain that I’m past 200,000 loaded rounds across all that I’ve made… and I have never worn out a carbide sizer from the one die maker that has the MOST dedicated legions of detractors in the history of handloading.

As in the above post, R-P nickeled seems to split a lot.
They look pretty in the scrap brass bucket which is where they go.
I had R-P 357M nickeled cases that neck split, trimmed them down to 38sp length and used them as maximum/over maximum testing, then scrapped.
My brass gets wet SS pin tumbled so used brass looks better than new brass.

Your points are very eloquently stated, and I can't add much of anything except to "like" this post...

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Send lawyers, guns & money...

...because they stay purtier and shinier than brass. But nickel does indeed crack more often. I've wondered if some annealing at the mouth would help but it may negate the whole shiny thing. Not only do nickel cases split at the mouth, they crack all down the sides, and some of them 'ring' funny when you toss them in with the rest of the brass. Also nickel takes a little more effort to size than brass. It's a little harder on steel dies, but lube negates that and I doubt they hurt carbide much even without lube.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

In my experience, nickel plated cases will suffer case mouth cracking long before a brass case will suffer a crack. Also, it is possible for tiny bits of nickel to flake off of the case mouth during resizing. Those tiny bits can remain in the sizing die and you won't notice anything until you run a plain brass case through the die and discover the resized brass case has long scratches along the sides of the case. This has been my experience, not internet lore as I started reloading well before the age of the internet. My mistakes were learned the hard way.

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VCDL, GOA, NRA

I too think it has more to do with the quality of the plating/process.
I've reloaded some S&W head stamped .38 spl from the '70's about a dozen times or more. No visible cracking. I reload using a lee classic reloaded however, maybe that makes some difference?

Having worked in Manufacturing Engineering I can tell you this about Nickel plated brass, the cracking is due to a phenomona called Hydrogen embrittlement. Nickel plating is also porous and can carry dirt into the dies thus scratching them. As far as wearing out carbide dies faster, this is definately an old wives tale, carbide is many times harder than nickel plating. Also there is no difference in the brass used in brass cases and the brass substrate of nickel plated cases, another old wives tale.

I believe nickel became popular because cartridges in leather belt loops were getting enough verdigris they would not chamber or had to be worked out of dump pouches with tools. Hopefully no one is keeping cartridges in leather for long periods.

My nickel cases are mainly 38 wadcutter brass, though I did end up with 50 280 Remington nickel cases.

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Front sight and squeeze

This is my understanding as well. Nickel cases for defense ammo isn't so prone to "going green" when carried at length. It has nothing to do with ease of extraction as mentioned above.

In days past, I used some Federal nickle plated rifle cases. Ostensibly, these were match grade cases and available only as components. I used them for .308 Win, .222 Rem and 6x47 Rem. Perhaps I should say "match" because I saw no significant benefit with them over others'. From what I can tell, they were ordinary, but plated, cases. Probably done for the bling factor. If you didn't shoot well, then at least you could look good!

The vast majority of my reloading experience is with the .38 Special and I can't say the nickel cases are any different than brass. I do keep my nickel cases separate from my brass ones but that's just esthetics. After reading the above comments I'll add that 90% of my brass is Winchester,and old. I too have reloaded nickel cases enough to wear the nickel off the case, or at least the portion above the shell holder. Now that's some weird looking ammo. I also have some regular brass cases that have been reloaded so many times the headstamp is peened to the point of being difficult to read. I rarely lose a case regardless. Most of my brass is from the 80's. But I do have thousands of .38 cases so who knows how many times each has been reloaded. I do try to rotate through it.

Carbide is very, very, hard. I don't see how nickel could wear it out. That's a dubious assertion.

To my knowledge, nickel cases first came about to keep the cases from discoloring and/or corroding in police belt loops. Of course nobody does that anymore. Now I just think it's marketing. Or maybe if you're paying $1+ a round of SD ammo people want it to look good for a long time. Perhaps they improve function in autoloaders, but that would not explain why so many revolver cartridges are still nickel plated.

The only time I favor nickel is when I'm making 9mm Makarov cases out of 9mm Luger. I like to use the nickel cases for visual identification as I also reload for 9mm Luger and .380. They all look alike. So I never load .380 or 9mm Luger in nickel cases to prevent mix ups.

Nickel casings eject a bit easier than brass and the surface finish doesn't degrade like brass does.

What you'll typically see is that training ammo (if using actual duty ammo isn't required) is usually produced in brass cases with ball type bullets while duty ammo is in nickel cases with HP/JHP bullets. Makes it easier to tell which is which.

Theoretically, yes, but keep it in perspective: you won't live long enough to wear out either with a hand operated press.
Are you considering buying a high-speed factory loader?!??

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Science plus Art

I load handguns for the most part. The only rifle that I reload is .30 M1 Carbine.

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

I had some really old Nickel 38 brass that I kept reloading, over and over......
until I could see brass spots on the cases !!

I like them both.

This is absolutely B.S. Nickel has a hardness of 4.0 on the Mohs scale. Tungsten Carbide has a Mohs hardness of 9.0 to 9.5. This is in comparison to Diamond that has the highest hardness of 10.0 MOHS. The only thing that can cause wear to Tungsten Carbide is Diamond!!! Tungsten Carbide can only be worked or polished using Diamond tooling or abrasives.

Some time back on the Ruger Forum there was this same discussion about brass versus nickel with the theme being longevity and effort to run through the sizer. Most were claiming nickel sized easier. This was not what i had observed in my decades of reloading both. So I conducted a test. I picked out 5 each new Starline 44 magnum brass and set out to reload until failure occurred and measuring with a fish scale effort to pull the handle on a single stage RCBS press. RCBS carbide dies were used no lube.
The first issue settled quickly. Nickel was several pounds more effort to size. Then we got into the longevity issue. To get to the point nickel failed first at about 22 loadings. Minor neck splits. I kept at it until 25 loading for each. The brass was still going and only 2 nickel cases split. The survivors are still in my brass loading mix somewhere. I never toss working brass.
I consider 22 loadings good service life and if offered at a good price would not hesitate to buy them but brass was better.
Other observation were I used mostly cast bullets and a stout load of 231 because I had an abundance of both but also shot some jacketed and 2400 and magnum levels. The revolver was a S&W Model 69. I like that revolver!
So take it for what it is my recorded observations.

Could the additional sizing effort of the nickel cases be just down to the plating thickness?

Way back when I bought a couple boxes of nickled .45 Colt cases. After a few reloads there was some peeling of the nickle and it ruined my sizing die. They were "original" Lee dies (Lee Custom Engineering) and to my surprise they replaced the die for free.

I don't buy nickle and if I find them on the range I throw them away.

That is a good question that I have no answer for.

Being a bit of a nit-picker, even with carbide dies I lube the cases, doesn't hurt a thing and makes me feel better. I also clean the primer holes.

I like to remark on the random upturn of nickel brass the way I notice repeating serial #'s on dollar bills I get for change at the local watering trough. When the numbers peak my fancy I get a power ball ticket. Hasn't helped yet.

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"Don't Give Up the Ship"

I clean my empties first, then lightly lube them before sizing, and then clean the primer pockets. Even with carbide, a little lube is a good idea, and it eases the sizing job as well.
I've reloaded enough plated brass to find that I'm more likely to wear off the plating than have them split.
But, I am careful to select or modify my sizing dies so that the inside diameter is not more than a few thousandths less than the intended bullet diameter.
Most carbide dies seem to overly size the case. Have you ever noticed that those annoying splits always occur in the spot between the case head and the base of the bullet??
Besides the extra wear and tear on the empty cases, overly reduced cases discharge without the full benefit of support from the chamber wall. So, nickel plated or plain brass, they will be more prone to split when they blow out upon discharge. This is similar, but less serious, to firing a cartridge/gun combination with excess headspace.

You can buy adjustable lapping tools that will open up even a hard carbide die a couple thousandths of an inch.

PS: I've never seen a carbide die worn out from use. The failures I've seen have been cracked carbide rings from being dropped, or a failure of the epoxy used to glue the ring into the die body.

PS #2: If you doubt my observations about straight wall case splitting, consider nickel plated bottleneck cartridges.
If you have used these enough, you may have noticed that, despite their higher operating pressures, you almost never see these long case splits. Hmmm....

I have a bunch of once-fired Federal nickeled brass from Federal 357B 125 grain factory loads we fired until about 1990. When they finally start to crack or split (it takes several reloadings), I throw out that batch and dig out another. The relatively few brass cases I have do seem to 'work' more easily; my RCBS 38/357 carbide sizer/deprimer die is just fine since new purchase in July, 1976.

Life is good.

I only load full blown mags in nickle cases. 357 44 41s if I have them. 38s I load any and all even have a few from the 40s or earlier . 45 Auto any and all. I have some nickle 45s with hardly any nickle left and some hardly have readable headstamps. I am pitching them these days since I have so many. I honestly think the nickle is removed from the cases more by tumbling them than sizing. All my nickle rifle cases I give to a friend back east. His son likes to load them cause they are "pretty". Oh and when I load handgun cases I use carbide if they make em and I still lightly spray with spray lube of whatever brand I have. Easier to size and seems to work the cases a bit less...for my blow away ammo in 45 auto I use 5.4 gr 231...so mostly all the same pressure range revolver cases get lot of 231 but different weight bullets

I have some R-P .45 Colt cases that I had bought new and after the first firing some of the nickel plating blew off in chunks. Some of it was peeling and I could grab it and peel off large pieces. R-P brass isn't what it used to be.

Cannot see nickel wearing out a carbide die. Just shoot them, check for cracks as you would brass. Don't overthink it!!

Better or worse .... Both
They shun dirt and corrosion which is nice for carry ammo, but they tend to split early

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it just needs more voltage

I'm in my 50's now, and don't know of anyone who has worn out a carbide die. Some of the dies I'm using were inherited from my Dad and are over 40 years old and work fine.

I'm also sure I also have nickel and brass cases that are just as old and still in the rotation.

Thing I noticed about nickel cases is they tend to be sold with higher pressure defensive rounds, which I suppose is done since you would be carrying the rounds more and they don't tarnish like brass, although you really should be shooting the things to maintain proficiency, rotating through your inventory, instead of just carrying the things to the point they get tarnished

The nickel will be less ductile than the brass, something that causes a problem for me when reloading, where the minimum flare on the case mouth I like needs to be adjusted when switching between the two, but I'm guessing the pressure is what's causing the cracking.

I shoot and shoot both, but prefer brass .

Have shot and reloaded countless nickel and brass case since the mid 70s. Prefer brass but some nickel cases get in the mix and they are sorted out and loaded seperatey. Have found nickel splits sooner than Most brass, however have sone Fed. nickel 38 Spl case that have been around 10 years?
As the carbide vs nickel issue, carbide is “ harder than Chinese arithmetic” so nickel won’t hurt dies.

I have a custom-made revolver in 38 Super that will eject nickel brass with ease, but brass cases stick in all the chambers! This happens even when I'm shoot loads that are 1gr(NOT .1gr) below book min. load! I have tried everything to remedy this problem, but it still occurs! My final solution, buy nickel brass and shoot as much as I like!
jcelect

Stupid question. Since it is custom made....did you asked the maker why? Did you try polishing the chambers? A lot of Model 17 owners have had problems with the chambers on those revolvers. Most polish them to get rid of the problem. I took a .22 MOP and some jewelers rouge to mine and viola it was fixed. Chuck the MOP on a section of cleaning rod into a drills. Load up the MOP with jewelers rouge and polish each chamber. Took me about 20 minutes as I was going slow. Revolver now chambers and ejects with no problems from any of the chambers.

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

At one point, I plated some standard issue plain brass. You wouldn't think so, but there must be some metallurgical voodoo involved. This batch would split while the remaining source plain brass didn't.

This is far from being a deal breaker.
It's my go to for hostile environment ammo. Such as rounds that have to work after fermenting into the floorboards of ye olde battle wagon for a few years.
It holds up to this sort of abuse

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it just needs more voltage

A very valid question! ! ! I bought the gun(cheap), not had it made, and had many other problems! Basically, the gun was built too tight in all aspects! I bought a ball type polisher from Brownell's and it helped a bunch, but I was afraid of removing too much material from the inside of the chambers. The gun now runs great for bowling pin shoots, including fast reloads, if I use nickel brass. Brass cases still stick but not as bad as before the work I done!


The red dot has been changed! This was built on a 629 frame.
jcelect

Checking the periodic table, nickel is 28 on the chart, while tungsten is 74, so 2 1/2 times harder than nickel. Nickel cannot touch carbide.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

The thickness of the plating is .0002" (two ten thousandths), that's the thickness of a particle of dust. As for lapping a carbide sizer die .002" #1 even with diamond compound you'd be lapping a long time. Increasing the I.D. of a carbide sizer that much, you may as well as not size. Lots of misinformation on this topic, as a retired Manufacturing Engineer I can tell you this to a certainty.

I think you must mean something other than the periodic table. The atomic number isn't proportional to hardness. Elemental tungsten isn't the "carbide" used in dies. It's Tungsten Carbide.