Run across a site selling 38 special WADCUTTER brass by PPU.

When i emailed them about it, the website retailer and ppu usa, neither was able to provide me any measurment proof that it IS wadcutter brass.

SO does anyone have any actual expereince iwth it?

Notice you asked the same question on another forum!
I loaded .38 special for many years and to the best of my knowledge, there is no difference between brass for wadcutters and standard .38 loads.
If you're just getting into reloading I'd suggest getting and reading several manuals first.

It used to be that the American manufacturers did put more effort and quality control into their .38 Match (wadcutter) brass. Not sure if they still do that seeing as how .38 Match is not very popular anymore. As to what PPU does, I don't know.

Edit: I researched this a little bit and I think what they are saying the the case walls are of uniform thickness as deep as possible in order to not deform a 148gr lead HBWC. The regular PPU brass (and other foreign makes) case walls tend to get thicker as you go down. I've often thought that foreign .38 brass is just short .357 brass.

I used to shoot a lot of factory American 148 gr. wadcutter .38 SPL ammo. The walls of the wadcutter ammo seem to be thinner than other .38 SPL brass. It is fine for reloading.

I've used Winchester match brass; whether dimensions are any different from their standard brass, I don't know. I couldn't see a difference in performance. If brass does not further size your cast wadcutter bullet when seated, looks like any good quality uniform brass would work fine for these bullets or any others. Possible sizing / distortion problems are easy to check by using a kinetic bullet puller and a micrometer.

Years ago RCBS sold a special sizing die for 38 Wad Cutters. I have one. It is not a carbide die so requires lube. Their regular sizing die did not size down very far so the bullet would sometimes be loose when seated flush because you could not crimp a WC. The special 38WC sizing die would more uniformly size the case further down so there was tension for the full length of the WC bullet. I originally needed this die to feed my Model 52. I have found that the Lee 38 carbide sizing die seems to work fine so I can size the 38 brass without lube.

For the last 50 years I have been reloading 148 gr. cast wadcutters and 160 gr. cast wadcutters in whatever brass I could pick-up , beg , borrow or steal . Remington , lot of Military brass , Federal , Winchester ...
only recently did I break down and buy 300 brand new Starline ...
just to say I have brand new cases .
But the once fired range pick-ups can be reloaded with wadcutters ...
I haven't noticed the brass being any thicker or thinner .
Expand the case mouth a little deeper than for SWC and seat ...
works like an old Black Magic Spell .
If there is a difference ... my loading technique doesn't show it .
Gary

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Certified Cajun
NRA Member

The double-cannelure cases from Remington, old Winchester (W-W marked) and some others (Western) have a thinner wall for more of the length of the case specifically to not swage the skirt on a long HBWC. Brass for LRN and similar bullets often is thicker back in the skirt area and that made for +P applications is extra thick. Factory resize dies tend to compress the brass a bit extra, so it's good to check the fit of your dies and your cylinder, but more important is the expander die, with many being too small and a .001" fit for the bullet being desirable.

Back in my long ago Bullseye shooting days, I paid no attention to who made the .38 Special cases I loaded and I don't believe anyone I knew did either. Everyone used full wadcutter bullets for Bullseye shooting. I also never saw or heard of special sizing dies to be used for loading wadcutter bullets. They may exist but if so, that makes no sense at all to me. A regular RCBS carbide die set always worked OK for me.

I bought four boxes of Fiocchi .38 Spl wadcutters, simply to get some newer once-fired brass. I have already shot one box and reloaded it with Hornady hollow-base wadcutter bullets. The headstamp on the cases is "G.F.L" over "38 Spl Wad Cut." Except for this headstamp, I see no difference between these and any other .38 Spl cases.

.38 Wad Cut.jpg

The only .38 Special brass I did not like was GI. It did seem that the sidewall thickness was greater and the loaded rounds had a slight bulge around the bullet. I once got a good buy on a case of CIL (Canadian) .38 wadcutter. I had a high percentage of case splits from those on the first shot and did not reload the brass. I once tested grouping performance between my wadcutter reloads and some Western factory wadcutters. No significant difference. At the time my standard reload recipe used 2.9 grains of Bullseye with DEWC bullets.

Years ago some factory loaded wad-cutters had two cannelures in the brass to prevent bullet from slipping back. After a few resize they were ironed out. There is no need that I know of special waddcutter brass. other than to debate and discuss.

Regular 38 special works just fine. Heck Starline doesn't make any


Wow! 7 post a day!

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Still Running Against the Wind

The skirt on an HBWC is going to expand to fit the barrel whether it's swaged down a couple of thousandths or not. The front of the bullet is slightly oversized to engage the rifling. Maybe it would make a difference to a competive shooter (?) but I'd like to see a side by side test.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

When i used to load swaged wadcutters, preferred Rem brass which was thinner. With the bullets and expander dies being used, it did not take a lot of interference fit to keep the bullets in place. And the differing brands of wadcutters had differing diameters. Was never aware of any specialized wadcutter brass, but was not very tuned in to the possibilities.

I have used a ton of wadcutter brass, mainly WW and RP with some Federal and Hornaday. I don't recall seeing PPU wadcutter ammunition. I believe that it makes a difference that only the top 1% of shooters might see. Why not take every break you can but there is no need to go out of your way for WC brass unless it falls in your lap.

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Front sight and squeeze

Most if not all American.38 wadcutter brass used to have a cannelure about halfway down the case. The inner case walls were parallel from the case mouth to the cannelure. The 148 gr. HBWC was supposed to be seated to a depth where the bottom edge of the skirt was even with top edge of the cannelure. Using a right-angled pick inserted down past the case mouth you can usually feel a slight ring inside if the case has not been fired and reloaded very many times.😎

...how you can tell the difference. Now I know, Thanks!

Now to check my cases, get some HBWCs and see if it makes any difference (to me). I'll bet dollars to donuts that it won't make a difference in my shooting, even off of a rest.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

I am so glad this "issue" has had thorough evaluation and discussion !

I have been selling off a dearly departed shooting buddy's stuff for a couple of years - then taking the $ to his widow.

He had many nice guns and a lot of nice "stuff" - including ~400 Rounds of what appears to be once-fired, W-W .38 Special "Brass Brass", with the characteristic "dual cannelures".

He also had a S&W Model 52 and a nice stock of Speer HBWC's loaded for it - all in dual cannelure brass. I assume the 400 rounds of W-W brass was "backup stock", that he just never got around to loading & shooting.

I might go ahead and pay for this brass, keep it, load it with my SAECO "382" SWC's (sized to 0.3575"), over 3.5 gr. of Bullseye and shoot it in his honor !

He knew the difference the dual cannelures made, so I hope he'll forgive me for loading SWC's in it !

Tom "carelesslove" Love

I finally found the pic I was looking for. Wadcutter brass on the right, conventional brass on the left.

Attached Images

Case Cutaway.jpg (197.7 KB, 124 views)

I believe this all came about in search of maximum accuracy at 50 yards for conventional NRA Bullseye (Precision Pistol) matches. Those guys could probably tell the difference. Most of us, not so much.

Between range limitations and my ageing eyes I don't shoot at more than 15 yards anymore. I doubt wadcutter brass would make a difference.

I used to shoot at 25 yards all the time but at today's indoor ranges that isn't always possible. Most around here are 15 yards max. Even if they have 25 yards they tend to be kind of dark for me and I have trouble seeing. Outdoors, with the better light, I think I'd be OK at longer ranges.

The difference between those cases is a difference in manufacturer, NOT one being for wad-cutter loads! Notice there is no evidence on the inside of either case that they have any cannelures on them! The thin one on the right is probably Remington.

There is no difference in cases from wad-cutter ammunition. All saying that fired cases are wad-cutter brass means is that they were originally loaded by the respective factory as wad-cutter ammunition.

No company has ever sold new component brass for hand-loading as specifically for wad-cutters because there is no such thing! This includes Remington, Winchester and Starline!

Brass is brass, with minor differences between manufacturers and normal lot-to-lot variations as a result of wear to the forming dies. There is no revolver brass sold as "match" as there is for some rifle cartridges.

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Gunsmithing since 1961

Then care to explain why Grafs is selling PPU brass labeled as wadcutter brass?

In the RCBS Manual they mentioned if you are loading shotshells the best brass to use is, brass that was originally factory loaded for wadcutters.

JMHO I think the shotshells needed uniform brass

I shot on my Police Department's PPC Team. As a reloader, I noted the wadcutter brass was significantly better than brass from our duty ammunition.

If you want new brass I suggest Starline Brass. That is a quality brass.

Marketing. No other reason.

I have pounds upon pounds of .38 Special brass, military issue, civilian and wadcutter from Remington and Winchester. I load mainly wadcutters anymore both for my PPC revolver, M29-2, 60's custom Colt wadcutter pistol and my S&W Model 52. Don't really notice any difference in any of the guns or the ammo, of course the 52 is the most accurate.

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

Well how about a different take on the subject:

Years ago I'd buy 30cal ammo cans full of 1x 38spl brass for $2 at camp perry & would buy 4 of them every year. It was thick w-w military brass. I would size my cast/swaged bullets to .357" when using this thick brass. I'm down to my last 4,000 w-w wc (high/low cannelure) brass. I size my cast bullets to .358" for this brass. It's the same thickness as all standard w-w brass but thinner then the thick w-w military brass.

Why:
The wall thickness 2x + the bullet diameter has to chamber freely. If the reloads are too tight in a clean chamber, accuracy suffers when the chambers start to foul.

Expanders used to expand the brass to accept the bullet:
I've showed this picture before showing why the lyman m-dies are better for cast bullets.

The key here is protecting the bullets base!!! A standard expander button next to a m-die. Note the longer body on the m-die compared a "standard" expander designed for the shorter jacketed bullets.

It's a long expander for long bullets and a short expander for short bullets.

The brass itself:
It does no good to examine fires brass. Words like fire formed come to mind. Now take unfired brass & you'll have something to measure/work with. The cannalures are put in the brass at specific locations to ensure that when the case is expanded it holds that specific cylinder tolerance to the base of the bullet. Longer bullet ='s longer strait wall in the case before the internal taper starts (.680" hbwc bullet). These are not my photo's but they are an excellent example of of what I'm talking about. The same pin gauge used in wc and standard remington brass.
remington wc brass (2 cannelure)

standard remington brass (plain or 1 cannelure)

The pin gauge used


At the end of the day:
What the factory did to the brass doesn't mean anything after it's been fired. It's now fire formed brass. Now you the reloader are the factory. What expander you use mandates if you're using wc or standard brass. The depth you set your expander at can and will play a huge role in your reloads performance/accuracy with lead or swaged bullets. A standard/short expander like what lee puts out limits the reloader. Typically they are setup/adjusted for the flare at the mouth of the case with no regards to the length of the bullet/bullet's base. The longer bodied expanders like the m-die can be adjusted for a specific bullet.