I’m looking for chronographed velocities that you fellow loaders find the most accurate at 15 & 25 yards. That would be with a 148 grain HBWC in .38 special out of a 4” barrel. Not looking for recipes, just what speed y’all find most accurate!
Thanks…Tom

800 +\- 25fps

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213th FBINA

Measuring the velocity won't necessarily give you the most accurate rounds. Neither will looking for the smallest SD, etc. The best way to do it is to start out with a known accurate bullet and powder charge. Actual accuracy testing by shooting will give you your accuracy comparison. The most reliable is a machine rest. There are some nuances to loading the particular 148 gr. HBWC that bullseye pistol shooters are trying. A lot has to do with special attachments so the soft bullet isn't distorted when being seated in the empty case. That being said, you can get good accuracy out to 25 yards in a good handgun by using good standard reloading dies and equipment.

If you do not want to risk losing a skirt in the barrel, keep it to around 750 fps or lower. I budged a barrel in a beautiful 38 Masterpiece running at around 775 fps while shooting commercial made 148g HBWC. I simply will never shoot another hollow-based bullet in any gun. I find that SWC or standard wadcutters are just as accurate as hollow-based bullets.


I found an interesting article in the November 2018 magazine on wadcutter bullets. https://www.handloadermagazine.com/wadcutters One compelling statement was as follows:

Commercial lead-swaged wadcutters are aggravating because they leave smears of lead in a revolver’s forcing cone and barrel when shot at velocities as low as 700 fps.
Hollowbase wadcutters are a relic of the past, when the expanding skirt of the base was required to spread out to seal barrel bores that varied widely in diameter.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

Around 720fps.

My F-I-L was a major player in the 60's & 70's. His preferred velocity for 4" S&W's was 675-700 fps. But depending on the primer he had to adjust the powder charge by two tenths of a grain to maintain the velocity. Primer Brand is important!

Ivan

Interesting..........

I have never used my chronograph, got it in a deal and it sits on a shelf. Never have felt the need to use it. I have always tested loads to see which was the most accurate by shooting them. I do use a program called Quickload, when figuring out what is safe and what is not. I have found that in my S&W 52 a HBWC of 148 grains with 2.8 grains of Bullseye is the most accurate. According to the Quickload program this has a velocity of 610 FPS.

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

Somewhere between 700 and 725. But it's been a while since I've tested them.

I found a cast button-nosed wadcutter can be every bit as accurate, even at higher velocities. Plus the cast and coated versions are cleaner in your gun and your dies. You have a lot more velocity leeway with the cast bullet.

My favorite commercial cast is Acme Bullets' no-lube groove design. If I were to cast my own I'd dig out my RCBS-148-WC mold from storage. I have not gotten as good results with the cast or swaged DEWCs. But I might not have tried hard enough.

It's an, "It all depends", answer. The actual more of the using firearm can have a difference. The amount of crimp put on the cartridge can make a difference. The accuracy of the loading powder dispenser can make a difference. The brand of HBWC bullets can make a difference.



I recommend you take a recommended load (from a loading manual), use a taper crimp die adjusted to no more than .003 crimp. Use Federal primers. Set the seating depth to not quite flush with case mouth. Load and shoot from your gun over a sandbag rest.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

I got my best accuracy at 775 fps but that was with a home cast hbwc and conventional lube in one groove, not a swedged one with thin lube coating. I had some pure lead and just found that one cylinder molds in revolvers were a pain.

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Front sight and squeeze

I have good accuracy out of my snub nose M49 with a HBwc lead bullet from
600 to 800fps, with (12) twelve different powders also (5) five spp's,
over the years of developing loads.

With a 6" barrel, 700 to 800fps works for me, with Red Dot getting my best group,
of all powders tested with my 686 revolver.

If you need a faster load, go to a BBwc , which is almost as accurate,
in my test.
Have fun.

Swaged lead HBWC will behave a little differently from a cast lead HBWC. Swaged lead is very soft and too much velocity can cause the hollow skirt to separate from the core of the bullet. Cast lead is harder and will tolerate a higher velocity. I'd say 650-700 fps would be good for a swaged lead bullet, but it will take a little more pressure to get a cast HBWC's skirt to expand and seal the bore, so a cast HBWC at 700-800 fps should be good. Nevada Ed is right about the solid wadcutter bullets, which are usually cast lead. Those can be driven to even higher velocity, just like a cast semi-wadcutter or round nose bullet.

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VCDL, GOA, NRA

Federal factory .38 SPL 148 gr. Match Hollow Base Wadcutter has a velocity of 730-755 fps out of a 5" S&W model 52-1, according to my chronograph test.

I never worried about MV. My testing indicated that a DEWC over 2.9 grains of Bullseye gave the best performance in my Model 14, so I used nothing else.

I use a 148 grain button nose WC over 2.7 BE. Back in the day when I was into casting, I used a Lyman 35891 mold and had success with it in my model 14. Never checked the velocity, just holes in X ring.

How is a pure lead cast bullet different from a pure lead swaged bullet? It is not.

It all depends on the alloy. I was running cast lead solid wadcutters at 900 fps. But, the were alloyed with tin at a 16/1 ratio. Trying the same speed with pure lead would be a waste of time.

Kevin

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Unshared knowledge is wasted.

From my experience 3.7gr of Unique listed in a very old Lyman book is just as accurate as 2.8 of Bullseye.

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Where we go one, we go all

I think most of us buy commercially made bullets and commercially made cast lead is usually not pure lead, but an alloy that is harder than pure lead. If you cast your own, then you can cast a bullet that will be as soft as a swaged lead bullet.

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VCDL, GOA, NRA

I do the same, never load hot or close to hot loads unless for SD loads and I go by the book. Used the same 2.8 grns of Bullseye for my Colt Mid Range and am shooting the few 100 of the left over ones in any revolver, Very accurate.
Reloading is safe and simple as long as one has common sense and Goes by the reloading manual.
Seems way to many reloaders get carried away.

I had not considered your point about commercial casters. Yes, most of them cast a bullet much too hard and undersized for use. There are several low volume commercial casters who will do custom alloys.

At one time, I cast everything I shot. Now, only occasionally.

Kevin

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Unshared knowledge is wasted.

I would say you need to figure out what load is most accurate in your revolver. Basically the most accurate rounds using a 148 grain HBWC will be from 600 - 800 FPS. Find out what yours likes.

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S&WHF #946
S&WCA #3824

but at what range whilst they be accurate.. is the real question

For matches, I shot to 50 yards. In practice, I would stretch the range to 100. I developed much better sight hold and trigger squeeze at that range. I believe Ed Harris went even further out.

Kevin

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Unshared knowledge is wasted.

By "what range", I am going to assume that you mean velocity. For me, my program says the load I am using is 610 FPS. But as the saying goes your mileage my vary. I use 2.8 grains of Bullseye and that makes me happy with the accuracy. You may have to use 2.9 or a tad more, or 2.7 or a tad less. Reloading is the best way to go for a lot of us. It is the experimenting to find the proper/most accurate load that is fun. It will give you a sense of accomplishment.

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

700 fps average S&W 686 Plus four inch (2.8 grains Bullseye Speer HBWC)

I have to say this from past experience, with these velocities, never shoot steel.
My load if Unique or Bullseye is NA, is Hp38/231 3.2gn from my 66

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Romans5:8

I shot this the other day. Not the 50 yards everyone is talking about, shot that range when I had good eyes and 35 years earlier. Now at 72 and needing cataracts worked on I shoot 15 yards. But I still shoot in the off-hand and not supported. Did throw one out of the group. Used a Silver Dollar for size comparison.

Attached Images

M52 Group 4.26.24.jpg (152.8 KB, 19 views)

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

Do NOT shoot 800fps or faster loads with HBWCs-- the skirt will separate from the front of the bullet. 25-50 yard accuracy is best at 600-700fps.
Use Zero or Precision Delta bullets. Try Bullseye, AA2, and 231/HP38