Anybody use Everglades Ammo's bullets? I'm working up a load for .357 Mag using H110 under 158gr bullet. I have a good supply of Berry's, and x-treme plated bullets but they say there only good to 1200fps. The data I'm looking at calls for: 15.0gr of H110, 158gr FMJ @ 1418fps-16.7gr 158gr FMJ bullet @ 1591fps. I'll be running the rounds through a S&W 686 4" Are Everglades JHP up to the task? At $35. per 100 bullets, pretty pricey. I've never worked with H110 before, I've read a lot of data and I'm aware of underloading the powder charge. What bullets are you guys using for max power loads for .357 Mag?

Nosler 250-packs for hunting; Zero for general use.

out of context

My Lyman 50th edition list .357 mag with H110, 158gr JHP @ start 16.3gr max 17.0 . Hornady 10th edition list start @ 12.7gr to max 15.6gr. Hodgdon site has one load for H110, 158gr JHP start @ 15.0gr - max16.7gr. Load data is all over the map. Folks say lots of flash and boom, very powerful, I want to use a bullet the is up to the task. There is lots of talk about squibs in under powered and poorly crimped cartridges. I'll check out Zero bullets , thanks to all. I know I'm late to the party but have you used H110 with good results?

With H110/W296 you need magnum primers, heavy crimp, and don't go below the starting load. I have had the best luck with heavier JHP bullets from 158 gr. to 180 gr. The Hornady XTP bullets have been very accurate for me, as well as Zero, Sierra, and Nosler. Zero bullets are the cheapest good ones. I have never gotten copper plated bullets of any kind to shoot a group in my revos. Some people like them, though.

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protocalldesign.com

coated cast lead for just about everything.

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it just needs more voltage

Zero jacketed bullets aka Roze Distribution

Roze Distribution

Pushed the 158gr with maximum charges of Alliant 2400 near 2,000 fps in lever action carbines. Completely satisfied with their product in every caliber I've tried.

Super nice folks - quick shipping too

I use everglades for 9mm and they are top notch, great for race games.
As for Xtreme, i have successfully pushed 240gn to 1380’s in the 44 and 230grains in the 460sw past 1500 without them flying apart. I say try them out in your magnum loads if you have a chrono. Workup your loads appropriately

In the 357 full house I am only using XTPs at the moment, but in the past have used the xtreme 158 swc, and hard cast gas checked without a problem.

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Romans5:8

IMHO (and previous experience) WIN 296 & H110 are very appropriate powders for 357 Magnum reloads. So-called "published data", which often varies widely(!), will often generate fine results, which can usually only be FULLY realized with the use of a chronograph.

A quality 158gr JHP (and there are quite a few available) at 1400+ fps ought to get anything's (or, anyone's?) attention pretty quick.

If one needs more one needs to further investigate and develop what actually works in the firearm and situation anticipated. Not every shot requires Buffalo Bore or Underwood level velocity or energy levels.

Cheers!

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Sit Reloader Sentiret

So what is a maximum charge of 2400 with a 158 grain bullet?
The most I've seen is 15 grains for a velocity just under 1700 fps in a carbine.

I agree Zero bullets are top notch as I have shot those for several years.

H110 is a great carbine powder but real flashy in a revolver as is 2400.

Velocities that are real world are far less in a 4" revolver than what is listed in the manuals.

Back in the 1980's I used H110 to duplicate the Remington 158 JSP load.

Remington in a carbine chronographed at 1754 fps.

Using the Speer 160 grain Sp
15 grains of H110 1485,1650,1570fps.
16 grains 1671,1665,1655fps.
17 grains 1756,1748,1764fps.

The primers were very flat but 16 and 17 grains gave great accuracy. You can see that 15 grains was not a sweet spot for H110.

Now what happens in a 4" revolver?
Since I load just at 16 grains this is the result in a 686.
1167,1165,1173fps.

I have not loaded plated bullets with H110. When I plink with them in the carbine I found that 6 grains of Unique produced tighter groups than a load of 7 grains. At 7 grains the 1200 fps threshold has been crossed and it shows on the target.

I hope this information is helpful.


Bruce

Don't worry about the 1,200 FPS limit that Berry, X-Treme and others state, the plated bullets will be just fine at anything under 1,400 FPS. They do not magically self-destruct or be a danger! Best accuracy may be at 1,200 or lower, but basically that is just a CYA statement by the maker!.

For the past 60+ years the vast majority of my .357 loading has been with my own cast bullets of several designs, both with and without gas-checks. Many years ago I realized that Elmer Keith was correct, that cast bullets do not require gas-checks! They also do not need to be HARD! A Brinnell hardness of 12-15 is all that is needed, even for magnums. I do not have issues with leading with loads as fast as 1,500+ FPS with proper lubrication. I use Saeco Green after trying many others including Alox blends and the LBT, Rooster and other "boutique", read expensive, lubes!

My "standard" full-power load for 158gr. bullets is the original Winchester factory charge (per Phillip Sharpe) of 15.3 gr./2400. It does 1,520 FPS from an 8 3/8" barrel, and 1,485 from 6". For those who don't know, Phillip Sharpe worked with Winchester in development of the first .357 Magnum ammunition. Elmer Keith had nothing to do with it!

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Gunsmithing since 1961

I've used Everglades 158 gr. JSP .357 bullets with complete satisfaction in my revolvers and my Marlin 1894 rifle.

WYT-P
Skyhunter

Bruce,

Max in the Lyman 50th is 14.9 gr of 2400 with a 158 gr jacketed bullet.

My memory failed me - I wasn't pushing near 2,000 fps at all. Saw your posted velocities and did a double-check.

I only have chrono data in my notebook for 14.0 gr 2400. These were downloaded a bit for shooting in K frames, but I do run the max in N frames. Impressive muzzle flash even in daylight.

My velocities at 14 gr:

S&W model 19 4 inch average 1,236 fps

Marlin Ruger lever carbine average 1,685 fps

Thank you for the update. Sometimes we have to check our memories with the log book.

The reason I asked was several years ago I did read about a 2,000 fps load in the carbine.
It may have been a Buffalo Bore load based on their own powder mixture.

BB seems to have Merlin, alchemy abilities in loading to high velocities at tolerable pressures.

Someone may remember if it was posted here a few years ago.

Your model 19 does well with 2400.

I'm now using AA#9 as it was available when H110/296 was hard to find.

Big advantage is lack of muzzle flash in the revolver. I still have some 2400 and will load some of it for the carbine.

Bruce

Not all hp's are created equal. Everglades Ammo is using a "generic" 158gr hp for the 38spl/357mag. That bullet you're looking at will not perform well at higher velocities. The hp cavity is too big/deep and is best suited for 38spl velocities.


3 different hp's cast for the same bullet.

The penta point is for +/- 800fps
The large round hp for +/- 1000fps
The small round hp is for +/- 1200fps

Different hp's for the 38spl/357mag's


Standard hp pin for the lyman and h&g 35cal molds are 1/8" in diameter.
Top row 3rd/4th/5th bullet from left and bottom row left and right bullets all have the standard 1/8" hp.
The top left is a home made swaged jacketed hp & the top row 2nd from left are cast with huge hp's for the 38spl.
The bottom row center bullet is a cramer bullet specifically designed for the 357mag, it's called "the hunter" bullet. It has a small hp that is designed to be used/effective at high velocities.

The Forrester hp tool uses a 1/16" bit for rifle bullets and a 1/8" bit for pistol bullets. The shanks of the bits is 5/32" and you can install a 60* center drill in the tool to make larger hp's. This is a lyman 429422 hollow based bullet that I put a large hp in (60* center bit/5/32" in diameter).

That was a 1000fps load that mushroomed the hp.

You used to be able to special order molds from lyman with oversized hp pins.

On the left is a standard 1/8" pin mold that I made 2 pins for. 1 pin is the standard depth. The other is a lot shallower making a cupped hp.
The mold on the right is a special order hp mold with a .140" pin. Typically 44/45cal lyman molds came with a .140 or a .156" pin.

The .140" pin is for 38spl +/- 800fps loads.
The standard .125" pin is for +/- 1000fps loads.
The cupped hp pin is for anything over 1200fps.

Myself, I've done a fair amount of testing different bullets and powders in the 357mags. At the end of the day I like to use a fn bullet in the 357mag.

The 158gr hp's on the left are for the plinking/blammo ammo.
The 170gr fn bullet on the right is what I use in my carry 357mag with a 1200fps load.

The 2 1/2" bll'd 586 l-comp I use that 170gr/1200fps load in.


Myself, I'd be taking a hard look at cast or coated bullets for that 4" 686. You'll get higher velocities for the same bullet weight. Along with cast bullets tend to have longer noises that allow the reloader to get the bullet out further into the leade of the chambers in the cylinder increasing accuracy. But still having the ability for a good solid crimp.

Thanks You make some very good looking bullets. I wish that I was set up to cast bullets.

Casting bullets can't be very hard ... I been doing it since 1967 .
A Lee Magnum Melter , double cavity Lee mould and casting dipper and you in business . Lee makes a inexpensive sizer ... lube or powder coat them and you are the Master of your own Bullet Supply .

With all the shortages I have made sure to have bullet moulds for every rifle and handgun I own . At the moment ... bullet casting and reloading is Legal and Unregulated ... but that could change at any time ...
Get set up now ... may not be a Later !
Gary

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Certified Cajun
NRA Member

$35 for 100 .357 JHPs is ridiculous.

Just buy Hornady for $25 per 100. This retailer is out of JHPs but the FPs are also good.

Hornady XTP-FP Bullets 0.357 (38 Special, 357 Magnum) 158 Grain Jacketed Hollow Point Box of 100 | Powder Valley

I have been using home cast the last 30 years or so. I remember an old recipe for 158 gr cast and 15.5 gr H110. Two sources said it was maximum, to be used only in Rugers and model 92 rifles and to use rifle primers as they were stouter.

I mostly shoot 160 gr wide flat nose bullets in 357 and rarely push things to the max. When I do 15 gr of H110 seems to do just fine as does 300 MP.

I have killed whitetail deer with jacketed and cast flat nose bullets and see no reason to buy jacketed. Animals die as quickly if hit in the vitals and blood shot meat is nowhere as evident as with jacketed.

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Front sight and squeeze

Max loads I would go with Jacketed bullets, not a plated or lead bullet. I like the Hornady XTP Bullets.

^^^^^
THIS

My research had similar findings.
The cast HP is a nuanced affair with room for a few schools of thought.
I tended to stick to a larger diameter cavity, but try to do my tuning in cavity depth and contour.
It seems that once we get a lead bullet started, it just keeps on expanding even when the cavity depth is exceeded.
at magnum velocities, a fairly shallow cone of generous diameter was all that was needed to make some magic happen.

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it just needs more voltage

I don't really care for Hornady bullets. I do have a few but have a couple 1000 Rem and about the same amount of Noslers. Most I got in estates/auctions yard sales and gun shows. None cost more than 10 dollars a box but I still load cast bullets. I also use a fair amount of Herco powder as I bought 2 8 pound jugs for 40 bucks each(pre pandemic). Just slightly slower than Unique and it works with both cast and jacketed very well. I do like the Rem 125s in the 357 N frames... my Blackhawk does not like 125s. I mostly shoot 38s in it and my 19 and 66s. I just bought an older somewhat blue worn but tight 4 inch Python. I'm going to have to see what it likes. Been working on buying the darn thing over a year. It will get a diet of 158 jacketed I think

H100 is the fuel to get the 357 Mag up to maximum velocity.
But it comes at a price, and that is the big flash and boom and a considerable amount of powder is still burning and making increased pressure right to the muzzle. After which is just a light show and a hyper sonic thunder clap. Which is not for everyone especially as an often used load for paper targets. More useful as a last shot or two to wake up the guy shooting in the next stall for s**ts an giggles.

Keep the space under the seated bullet filled to minimum 75% full of powder.
H110 is a very slow burning handgun powder.
Its a ball powder that has the granules coated with a lot of flame retardant to slow the burn, that’s way mag primers are specifically called for when loading H110 but their a waste for flake powder like Universal.
Ball powders are hard to light due to the granules spherical shape. (think round log in a fire place, it doesn't catch fire as easily as a split piece that has lots of edges)

The deterrent coating(s) (it could be in layers) also makes H110 difficult to keep lit particularly if reduced below 75% fill space.
Because the granules get scattered in the empty expansion space and the burn of individual granules can't mutually support other granules to light up. The deterrent coating fights against continued combustion unless the pressure can be kept up high.

Smokeless powder needs to burn at high pressure to be smokeless and have reduce fouling (efficient). Witness the complaints of shooters seeing dirty powder fouling in low pressure cartridges, particularly if used with a reduced load.

The max powder charges are all over in manuals because I don't believe you can kaBoom a 357 Mag with H110. The powder is too slow burning and just can't make kaboom level pressure. Worst case scenario is stuck cases. A max load (any manual) may stick a case in your revolver but not in another guys.
After all, H110 loads in manuals have been pressure tested in SAAMI minimum specification pressure gun chamber & barrel so your handloads will operate at a little less pressure in your off the shelf firearm.