38 special schofield freak accident

L

lougotzzz

Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2009
Messages
184
Reaction score
46
Facts:
Hand loading 17 years
Dillon sq deal B press
Visually check powder on every round before seating projectile
Xtreme bullet RNFP 158 gr plated
Press has been giving me timing issues on and off
Got 2 squibs before this issue
Gun Uberti from Taylor’s and co 38 sp 5 inch bbl
Load 2.9 gr clays 3.1 is max

Accident:
Brand new gun. Shot 6 rounds noticed the weight of the gun made felt recoil zero. Almost felt like primer driven only. 6 rounds on paper. Moved to another target. 6 more rounds felt exactly the same. Nothing on paper. Investigated and 6 projectiles stacked in bbl with one at tip of muzzle.

I have been intouch with Taylor’s and I have a new bbl on order. Approx $700 after parts labor and tax and shipping.

I am not 100% sure what did this. Me, my press or the gun. Taylor’s says Uberti makes the bore diameter tight. I looked at the specs online and it states .346. Does this sound normal for 38 sp? the projectile measures .3565.
I have shot this load many times out of my smiths with no issues except the 2 previous squibs.
I am concerned about shooting this after I get it fixed. I will be going back to my turret presses( Redding T7) until I figure this out.
Your thoughts, advise, what to look for.
I am really pissed about this. It’s like buying a new car and going to the store and getting into an accident. Plus the bbl is on back order could be a couple of months. I honestly wish I never bought it.
Final note, loading 16 years on single stag and then turret. No issues at all except 1 squib and I called it and had it put aside. I am very happy I kept my single stage and 2 turrets.
Thanks Lou

ETA: I am wondering if my press dropped a light charge when I had the timing issues. Then being the bbl diameter was tight it didn’t let the projectile pass through. Before I changed a part on the press, a few times (could be 3 x) the shell plate would snap and jolt the press. Very possible cause I got 3 squibs in a 800-900 round batch.
 
Last edited:
Register to hide this ad
Hardly a "freak"! You had one squib that failed to clear the barrel. You didn't recognize it for some reason and proceeded to fire several rounds after the squib. Because of the bullet already stuck in the bore the next one stopped when it struck the stuck bullet and subsequent rounds just piled up until you finally realized something wasn't right! What the reason is for the squib is not important. It could be a light charge or poor ignition of the charge due to a weak primer or simply cold weather. There is a good chance the first bullet would have cleared the bore if it had been lubricated lead instead of jacketed! YES, the coefficient of friction for plated bullets is the same as if they were a conventional cup-and-core bullet.

There was only one reason for the incident, and that was the squib. No tight bore! If you fire a round and either it doesn't feel right, or sound right, then STOP shooting and see what the problem is before firing even a single other round of that ammunition. You cannot blame this on anything except yourself.

SAAMI .38 Special standard bore diameter is .346" to.350", just like Uberti states. The "tight bore" was just an excuse!

$700 seems quite exorbitant to simply replace a bulged barrel. I would expect no more that half that amount.

There is no reason to be concerned about shooting the gun once repaired, just pay attention to what is happening! Unfortunately you aren't the first to have this happen. I bet any gunsmith who has been in the business any time at all has seen a situation exactly like this come in the door.
 
Last edited:
I have experienced 2 squibs due to poor ignition of 231/HP38 powder in minimum recommended loads in 38 special. Both were with factory recommended charges using polymer coated lead. Both were is snub nose Smiths as well.

I was chronographing new loads and noticed 200 fps or more variations from round to round. These were individually weighed charges so I know I didn’t miss a charge. Fortunately when I heard the poof sound and not the normal bang I stopped. The bullet made it into the barrel so opening the cylinder on my model 10 was no issue. When I opened it powder poured out of the back of the barrel so I knew there was powder in the cases.

Not only did I experience wild velocity variations with my 38’s, I’ve experienced them with 45 acp and chalked them up to chronograph error. Now after some testing I’ve found 232/HP38 to be very position sensitive in minimum loads. Mid range loads are no issue but I shoot mild loads due to arthritis.

So to resolve the problem I’ve gone to AA2 for most of my38’s and have no ignition issues or position sensitivity.you May have experienced similar issues.
 
In reply to multiple post.
It was cold out about 35-40
There was absolutely no difference in the charged loads recoil to the squib.
I was shooting at 12 yards and saw bullet holes first 6 shots moved to a different target to get use to the sights and position them differently in the rear notch.
Taylor’s did say they recommend cowboy load(assuming lead) for the gun and I can lube the bbl with a moly spray.

Bbl is not bulged as far as I can tell. I ran my fingers up and down and felt nothing.

As for cost
484 bbl
105 labor
Approx 30x2 ship
Tax pa 6 % if applies
 
Last edited:
I look into the case ... 3 Times ... to verify powder charge with my eyeballs before that bullet gets seated . I load on a single station press ... it may be slower but ...
It gives me a chance to eyeball the powder, three seperate times .

Progressives give you more room to create the little Faux Pas !

Reloading since 1967 ... 57 years !
Load Safe
Gary
 
lougotzzz said:
In reply to multiple post.
It was cold out about 35-40
There was absolutely no difference in the charged loads recoil to the squib.
I was shooting at 12 yards and saw bullet holes first 6 shots moved to a different target to get use to the sights and position them differently in the rear notch.
Taylor’s did say they recommend cowboy load(assuming lead) for the gun and I can lube the bbl with a moly spray.

Bbl is not bulged as far as I can tell. I ran my fingers up and down and felt nothing.

As for cost
484 bbl
105 labor
Approx 30x2 ship
Tax pa 6 % if applies
Click to expand...

Thanks for posting.

If the barrel does not seem to be damaged, any consideration of trying to drive the stuck bullets out?
 
When I was reloading single stage and turret I would check the powder 3 times also. Up and down in loading block and when I put it in shell holder to seat. With the sq deal b I look only once and have no other charges to reference height. This might have been the issue. I might have let a low charge go through thinking it was a full charge.

As for pushing them through it’s not happening by hand. My son is an auto mechanic and he has a hydraulic press for bushings. I might try this if I can make something to hold the bbl securely
 
With all due respect to the op. your first mistake was to continue firing after your first target "miss".
Your second mistake was to not hear/feel or sense the experience of a squib load. I've had them and they do not hear, sound or feel like a normal round at all. There's no mistaking it.
The first thing I would do is pull the remaining rounds and see what you have. It's not the bore size, bullet choice or published charge. I have a Schofield in .45 Colt and am familure with the weapon. I've been handloading since the 70's. Sometimes bad things happen to good people. You were fortunate. God bless.
 
Light load, 158 gr plated or jacketed bullet, relatively long barrel at 5". Not surprising that you got bullets stuck in the barrel. If you have a Speer Manual read what it says about 158 gr jacketed bullets in the .38 spl even at +P level. Some years ago a friend acquired a pristine 1899 model S&W, 6 or 6.5" barrel from a widow he knew. Wanted to take it easy on the old S&W he loaded some light handloads with 158 gr jacketed bullets. Result, a ruined barrel of the fine old S&W after it had survived all those years.
 
Had to drive stuck bullets out of barrels a couple of times over the years. What worked well for me was a bench vise with jaws padded with leather, penetrating oil, wooden dowel rod, plastic mallet.

Mount revolver in padded vise jaws with barrel pointed up. Apply penetrating oil generously at the muzzle end, allow to soak overnight. Insert dowel rod in muzzle and tap sharply with plastic mallet to drive the bullet out.

Clean the revolver normally. Inspect closely for any bulging of the barrel. If everything looks normal the revolver can be returned to use.

This has never been very difficult in my experiences. Once started in motion the bullets have moved without a great deal of force applied.

My experiences have not included a revolver with multiple shots stacked up in the bore. I suspect that subsequent shots with a blocked bore would increase the likelihood of barrel bulging or other potential damages.
 
It's often recommended to use lead bullet data for plated bullets, but I think that's more tailored for the high end and not the low end.

Given the tight bore, long barrel, cold weather, and a .01 gr below minimum for jacketed bullets (Hodgdon) it's not a giant surprise. The fact that the gun did not fail is an indication of how light this load is.

Perhaps this could be drilled and then pressed out?
 
Let's back up to post #1. "Press has been giving me some timing issues." I don't own a progressive, but have familiarity with them. There's generally two causes: your method of operating the press or adjustments have slipped.

In your shoes, I'd sent the press back to Dillon for service/adjustment just to get that out of the way. Then, when it gets back, make sure your movements of the press handle are positive and full stroke. EVERY TIME.Periodic cleaning and lube help too.

I'm not familiar with Clays, but a powder with some bulk is a good idea.
 
I really appreciate all the posts and replies. I will definitely say that there was operator error on my part. I will also say that I was very shocked myself when I first shot the Schofield that a loaded round felt so light. I think this is what contributed to me not stopping after the first shot not hitting paper. As for the 158 Grain projectiles I have been shooting that load for over 10 years in other Smith and Wesson revolvers and had not had any issues. I have changed a few parts on the Dillon and it is running much smoother now, but I am going to take extra precautions to make sure I am not under charged. This can happen to anybody. I know people think how could you put six rounds in a barrel and not know that it was not proper, but with a new gun, a heavy gun a problem with the press and operator error. It all comes in like the perfect storm and this **** does happen in life. Thank you for all your help. I will be looking at all the things that you stated I don’t want this to happen again.
 
2.9 grains of powder?! What could possibly go wrong? lol. I swear. I don’t know why some of you guys even shoot. The bullet can’t even get out of the barrel! more lol. If my Garmin doesn’t say at least 900 for, I’m going back in the house and putting more fuel in the combustion chamber.

And while I’m on my soapbox, if you had your Garmin Xero along, it would have told you that nothing came out of the barrel when the hammer dropped. For all you tightwads that won’t spend $600 on a Garmin Xero, you deserve what you got.

If the barrel isn’t bulged, you can get the bore unobstructed.
 
Yendor357 said:
2.9 grains of powder?! What could possibly go wrong? lol. I swear. I don’t know why some of you guys even shoot. The bullet can’t even get out of the barrel! more lol. If my Garmin doesn’t say at least 900 for, I’m going back in the house and putting more fuel in the combustion chamber.

And while I’m on my soapbox, if you had your Garmin Xero along, it would have told you that nothing came out of the barrel when the hammer dropped. For all you tightwads that won’t spend $600 on a Garmin Xero, you deserve what you got.

If the barrel isn’t bulged, you can get the bore unobstructed.
Click to expand...

Millions upon millions of rounds of .38 Special with 2.9 gr of Bullseye and a HBWC traveling way under your 900 fps minimum have been fired over the last 100 years. It's one of the most accurate and popular 38 Special loads. I can only assume you must not be very familiar with reloading the .38 Special. Most standard loads are under 900 fps.

Yes a Garmin would have detected the problem. There are also other ways to detect them and prevent them. I'm not running a Garmin every session just to detect squibs. They are an extremely uncommon event and I've detected them all without a device to help me.
 
Anytime you get a single shot that feels odd, whether it's lighter or heavier, it's time to stop shooting. First thing to do is inspect the bore for an obstruction, and never fire another round until you're sure the bore is open.
Once all appears fine then you could try one more, and check the bore to see if another exited. If another also stuck, then it's time to head home and begin pulling bullets and checking charge weights.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

K
"Neck Turning" 38 Special
2
Replies
31
Views
1K
Just another 22 shooter
Just another 22 shooter
H
38 Special & Vihtavuori Powder
Replies
10
Views
984
BrBa
B
M
Making 38 special bullets using a 9mm mould.
Replies
11
Views
232
M5741
M
jculloden
38 Super sizer for 38 special brass
Replies
11
Views
762
rosewood
rosewood
B
.38 Special Brass with large primer pocket
Replies
9
Views
817
Reloader Fred
R

Latest posts

Back
Top