20 - 1 alloy

I am about to purchase a quantity of alloy for casting pistol bullets. .44 special, .45acp, and .38 special. All revolvers. My desired velocity range for all of these calibers is going to be 850 up to MAYBE 1000fps. "Respectable" loads, but nothing magnum-class. I wonder about the necessity of the ultra-hardness of "hardball" alloy. What is yall's experience with 20-1 alloy? Keith used it, so I suppose that should settle it, but I'd like other opinions.

What BHN is your alloy?

Stophel said:

I am about to purchase a quantity of alloy for casting pistol bullets. .44 special, .45acp, and .38 special. All revolvers. My desired velocity range for all of these calibers is going to be 850 up to MAYBE 1000fps. "Respectable" loads, but nothing magnum-class. I wonder about the necessity of the ultra-hardness of "hardball" alloy. What is yall's experience with 20-1 alloy? Keith used it, so I suppose that should settle it, but I'd like other opinions.

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I have read where Keith use a mixture of 16 to 1 for most bullets except for ones he ran in his M1917 revolvers. Then he went to a mix of 10 to 1. I'm not sure what the BHN of those bullets are but I can tell you they are much softer than conventional wisdom teaches.

Here are some BHN factors for various alloys. I have a mix that I usually use for most handgun type loads. Straight wheel weights. I have made some softer by using stick on wheel weights, nothing scientific mind you. I have also made some quite a bit harder by adding Linotype to the mix. Usually 1lb per 10lb pot of metal. It varies and I don't know for sure just what my hardness is but I can tell you this, it works. In fact, that mixture works in 44Mag with a bunch of 2400, H110 or Accurate Arms #9 behind them, while being shot from a carbine, somewhere in the vecinity of 1800fps.

Here is a picture of an excerpt of Elmer's thoughts on the subject that I quoted above.

Lead, 5
Wheel Weight 9
Electrotype 450 12
Bullet Alloy #2 15
Linotype (Eutectic) 22​

Solder (37Pb/63Sn) 14

The 20-to-1 alloy (lead-tin) is entirely suitable for black powder muzzle-loaders. For the velocities you are looking at I would recommend used wheel weights, perhaps with just a little new linotype metal added (about 0.5 lbs per 10-lb batch). Make sure that your bullets drop from the mold no more than 0.001" over groove diameter and lubricate with Alox or better. Avoid overly sizing cast bullets, as this always damages them to some degree.

I have cast, sized, loaded and fired at least 50,000 handgun rounds with cast bullets. I have loaded cast bullets in several rifle calibers up to about 2200 FPS and taken several game animals with them.

If you are interested in pursuing this (admittedly narrow) field of reloading technology, I suggest that you acquire any or all of the excellent Lyman manuals on this subject.

Best regards.

I load in that same velocity range with straight wheelweight alloy. I water drop, which makes it a bit harder. The biggest problem I see with cast bullets is those that are unnecessarily hard, and sized too small. They do not upset and seal the bore, allowing hot gasses to get to the sides of the bullet and melt it. With the WW alloy, which is pressure lubed with a carnuba wax based lube, I get minimal leading.

A 20-1 alloy will be fine for vel. to 1000fps as long as the size is correct & you use a good lube like WhiteLabel BAC or sim. A 20-1 alloy also makes a good expanding LHP. I run 50/50 mix of lead & clip-on WW to 1200fps w/ little to no leading.

I've shot truckloads of bullets at the velocity levels you listed, I've found no better alloy than strait wheel weights for this, I much prefer ww's to the commercial hard bullet alloys.

Unless you have piles of strait lead and are just wanting to use it in the 20 to 1 mixture, I would use or buy ww's.

Tin is very expensive to buy these days unless you have a cheap source. 308

Anything I use will have to be ready-to-go. I have no means of mixing up my own alloys.

Wheel weights are also not an option. I cannot get them. All the local tire shops have contracts to turn the weights back in to be recycled (or something like that). If that alloy is available ready-to-go, than that would be fine. What is the wheel weight alloy anyway?

Admittedly, I am not fond of reloading. It is EXCEEDINGLY time consuming. I don't have the time, nor the money, nor the inclination to do a lot of experimenting. I'd like to at least start out close to what I'm looking for, and I need to keep it simple. As few different materials as possible.

I'll be loading for a new 22-4 .45acp, a new 21-4 .44 special, a 624 .44 special (with the big throats), and numerous old .38 specials. Oh, a 27 .357 too, but it needs cylinder/breech work (some knumbskull messed up the breech end of the barrel with a file...not too badly, though, it should be repairable, I just need to get around to finding someone to do it), and I'll probably stick with jacketed bullets in it anyway.

According to Rotometals, their 20-1 lead/tin has a hardness of 10. "Hardball" is 16, and the Lyman #2 alloy is only a hair softer at 15.

Wheel weight alloy is mostly lead with a touch of tin and a smidgin of antimony, I don't recall the precise percentages off the top of my head, must be gittin old to not remember stuff like that...

Any of the mixtures you have mentioned with hardness levels of 9 to 12 or 14 will do what you want, but...... if you think reloading is drudgery, its nothing compared to casting, inspecting, and lubing the bullets.

The big thing with buying alloys is to have a source reasonably close to you, shipping can be murder on lead.

Have you considered just buying commercial cast bullets, I have never found any that I thought were as good or accurate as what I can cast for myself but when pinched for time or needing large quanities quickly I have bought some. 308

Don't forget the "rat poison!"

Arsnic, wheel weights also have arsenic in them. This aids in hardeneing if needed. You can make your bullets harder by water dropping from the mold or quenching after heating in an oven.

For the velocities you have stated though, you won't need it.

As for availability of cheaper lead, why not check out ebay? There are lots of folks that sell wheel weights and some that even make ingots out of them. The price is OK if you have no other source.

FWIW

I've already been casting bullets. I've done some with "Hardball" alloy.

My casting operation is minimal....I do the same with the pistol bullets as I do with casting round balls for flintlock rifles: Put a chunk of lead in my little ladle, hold it over a fire/propane torch, drop in a touch of wax, and pour into the mould. I've lubed with Alox, just smearing it in the groove, and setting them aside in a closed box to dry (and keep from attracting dust). So far, I have only done .45, and I have had sizing problems. I have the 230 gr RCBS "cowboy" mould for it. It makes a .454 bullet. Nice, HUGE flat nose. Makes a good looking bullet. A sort-of semi-semiwadcutter. But, I have to size it down. I cannot afford hundreds of more dollars for expensive sizers (reloading saves you money how, exactly???), so I have the Lee sizer...but, the one I have sizes too small!!! The bullet comes out .451! Arrgh! I have another one coming to me, hopefully it will be right, and I also ordered a reamer (11.5mm, which is .4528"), and I'm gonna try to ream this one out just a bit, we'll see how that goes. My throats measure .453" (lead slug driven through).

I have looked around for alloy suppliers. Rotometals appears to have decent prices, and free shipping on $99 or more orders (which would be a big point for me, shipping costs a fortune now...for everything). I need a quantity of pure lead for round balls anyway, so I'd like to order lead along with pistol alloy.

Don't ever think that reloading saves you money. Yes on a per box basis you can hand load them for less dollars, but you end up shooting more. Same dollars spent just more powder burned. 308

I was surprised to see that 20:1 is less expensive than "hardball" alloy.
It ought to do well for you, I have cast a lot of .38-55 bullets out of it for about 1200 fps with good accuracy and no leading. But that's with black powder. It ought to do ok with moderate smokeless loads, though.

I am using 30:1 for .41, .44 and .45 with velocity up to 1200 with no leading. I use a soft lube though.

The more you shoot the quicker you recoup-----

308 said:

Don't ever think that reloading saves you money. Yes on a per box basis you can hand load them for less dollars, but you end up shooting more. Same dollars spent just more powder burned. 308

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your initial cash outlay. The thing about it though is that you have to shoot to recoup it!

You are saving money you WOULD have spent had you not been able to reload.

If the going price is $20/50 and you can cast and reload those same 50 for $2, you haven't saved anything until you have to replace them, which means you have to shoot them and then the savings kicks in. Of course until you pay back your initial cost of equipment you really haven't saved anything BUT as stated by 308, you have run a bunch more bullets down the barrels of your firearm and in my opinion, that's a good thing!

Lead alloys

For those that have expressed the interest, here are some lead alloy compositions. I have used this information for years to blend my own alloys for bullets, based upon the intended use.

Wheel weights: 96% lead, 3% antimony, 0.25% tin, trace of arsenic. Brinell Hardness Number (BHN) around 12.
Lyman/Ideal #2 alloy: 90% lead, 5% antimony, 5% tin. BHN 15.
1-to-10 lead/tin alloy: BHN 11.5.
1-to-20 lead/tin alloy: BHN 10.
Linotype metal: 84% lead, 12% antimony, 4% tin. BHN 22.
Monotype metal: 72% lead, 19% antimony, 9% tin. BHN 28.
Stereotype metal: 80% lead, 14% antimony, 6% tin. BHN 23.

About 20 years ago I purchased 200 lbs of linotype metal from a foundry. It used to be fairly common, being used by newspaper publishers to cast and set the type plates for the printing presses. Now that just about every publisher has gone to other printing methods the only reliable source will be foundries.

I have also accumulated about 300 lbs of wheel weights over the years, and continue to do so.

For standard velocity practice ammo in 9mm, .38 Special, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP I use straight wheel weight metal. This works just fine in the 800 to 1000 FPS range.

For magnum handgun loads in .357 and .44 mag I mix 75% wheel weights and 25% Linotype metal for an alloy with BHN approx. 15. This works well up in loads I have used up to around 1400 FPS.

In rifle calibers I use 50% wheel weights and 50% Linotype metal for an alloy with BHN approx. 18, in .30-30, .30-40 Krag, .300 Savage, and .45-70 with gas-check bullets at velocities up to about 2100 FPS. Killed several deer with these in the .30 calibers, and dropped a 3-point bull elk with the .45-70 (500 grain bullet at about 1100 FPS).

I have also loaded pure Linotype bullets (BHN 22) in .30-06 with velocities up to 2500 FPS with gas-check bullets. I would not hesitate to take an 800-lb. elk with these.

The critical factors with cast bullets:

For accuracy, the bullet must drop from the mould no more than 0.001" over groove diameter. The harder alloys do not shrink as much as the softer alloys going from liquidus to solidus, so this can be a factor. Minimal sizing, the less the better, as all sizing damages the bullet to some degree. Good lubricant is a must. Bore must be clean. I regularly shoot 2" groups at 100 yards with cast bullets in good rifles, and I cannot detect any difference in handgun performance between cast and jacketed bullets.

For prevention of leading: proper diameter (no more than 0.001" above groove diameter and NEVER less than groove diameter). Good lubricant is a must (I prefer Alox, but it does smoke and cause an odor which can be a problem at indoor ranges). Clean bore and chambers (residual copper fouling from jacketed bullets tends to cause leading). NEVER exceed the capacity of the bullet alloy being used! Powders in the middle of the burning range are best with plain-base cast bullets. Faster burning powders have a higher flame temperature which can melt the bullet base. Gas checks can extend velocity potential considerably, and also provide a scraping action through the bore.

It is very useful for a new cast bullet user to thoroughly lead a revolver at least once. After that experience the user will exercise the necessary discretion to avoid such unpleasantness forever.

As for economy, I can load standard velocity handgun cartridges for about $3 per box of 50, and I can load the rifle calibers for about $5 per box of 20. This is at 2009's inflated costs for primers and powder!

Probably too much information here, but I've been casting and shooting lead bullets for about 35 years, done a lot of research, and built up a little experience.

Thanks everybody. Lots of helpful information.

Well, I decided to just go ahead and order some lead. I got some pure lead and I also got some Lyman alloy. I figure I can come up with a (cheap) way to melt lead a few pounds at a time (if nothing else, I can melt it in a pot on a fire in the back yard), and if I use one pound of Lyman, and one pound of pure lead, that would end up with 2.5% Tin and 2.5% antimony, which theoretically, is reasonably close to Wheel Weights. Harder than 20-1, and softer than Lyman/Hardball. Plus, I'll have some of the harder Lyman alloy on hand if I want to cast for the faster .357.

If I ever get my .45 sizing fixed, I think I'll finally have everything I need. .44 and .38 won't be a problem.

Ah, flintlocks...all I need is lead, flint, black powder, and linen for patches. :wink:

To avoid leading, cartridge pressure needs to be about three to four times the tensile strength of the bullet alloy. If you know the Brinnel hardness, you can multiply that number times 480 to get alloy tensile strength in PSI. Three times that number is the lower limit of cartridge pressure, four times is the higher limit.

For example, 20:1 alloy has a tensile strength of 10 X 480 = 4800 PSI
Lower pressure limit - 3 X 4800 = 14,400 PSI
Upper pressure limit - 4 X 4800 = 19,200 PSI

You can likely be somewhat outside these limits without leading.

For higher pressures (magnums, rifles), use harder alloys.
For lower pressures (Cowboy loads), use softer alloys.


Buck

Since you aren't casting hundreds of bullets an hour, or a day, or a week, you can correctly size your bullets by pushing them through the revolver cylinder (from back to front, they way the bullet will go) with a wooden dowel.

A small furnace from Lyman or Lee can often be had used for a reasonable price.

The Lee sizer should be available in .454, or whatever size it is you need, on special order. again, push a cast bullet from your mold through the cylinder, measure it, or send it to Lee and tell them what you want.

Too bad about wheelweights. I use Lyman #2 Alloy for everything. 9 pounds wheelweight metal and one pound 50/50 bar solder. You can get the bar solder in one-pound rolls at hobby lobby. It is used by people who make things with stained glass.