beng
US Veteran
A few years ago 473 was used in handguns. My manuals do not go back to that time zone. (I do, not my manuals) Anyone have a few reloads for a 158 SWC for a 38 spl / 357? Thanks beng
-
Forum Update: We've upgraded the software to improve security, performance, and the overall experience.
👉 Read why we made the change | Support the Forum
Win 473 powder
- Thread starter beng
- Start date
Register to hide this ad
pberry
US Veteran
I have seversl old Winchester powders. 473aa is one of them. I did a lot of research on them starting about 3 years ago. I wanted to use it up before I started in on some new stuff. I read every forum on reloading I could. What I found was a statement that 473aa has been renamed WSL. I don't recall where I got that and I will tell you to take it with caution. People will tell you things that they don't know is true or false. I worked up some loads with it for 40S&W and they were ok. What I ended up with as a max load was 6.2 gr 743 with 155 gr rainier plated, cci sp primers. Velocity averaged 995 fps. If you try this load, start low and work up. They also said those old powders will burn differently depending on temp. In hot weather your loads may get hot.
It was fun to play with, but I was uneasy useing it, and I'm glad its gone. I'm useing titegroup now. Its a pleasure to use.
Be careful with it.
Phil
It was fun to play with, but I was uneasy useing it, and I'm glad its gone. I'm useing titegroup now. Its a pleasure to use.
Be careful with it.
Phil
Alk8944
US Veteran
In the few cartridges I have used 473AA, because I didn't have much, equal loads gave equal velocities compared to Unique. So long as I was staying slightly below listed maximums I would have no concern using Unique data for this. It brns very clean compared to Unique too.
I used to consider 473AA my standard 20ga skeet powder, and still have the Winchester Manuals listing the shotgun loads.
473AA was a medium-fast powder for loads that could also use SR7625, 800-X, or Unique. Although the volume of Unique was nearly identical for the skeet loads, the weights were different from 473AA.
The same manuals that show the shotshell loads DO NOT show any 473AA loads for .38 or .357. In fact, those manuals only show 231 and 296 for .38/.357. There is no explanation in the manual why 473AA is not listed for handguns.
Judging from the relative loads in 20ga, the 473AA should be about the right speed for .38 and only moderate .357 loads. It is too fast for true magnum loads. I have never seen any pistol data for it.
If I still had some good 473AA powder, I'd load up 7/8oz of 9s in 20ga hulls.
473AA was a medium-fast powder for loads that could also use SR7625, 800-X, or Unique. Although the volume of Unique was nearly identical for the skeet loads, the weights were different from 473AA.
The same manuals that show the shotshell loads DO NOT show any 473AA loads for .38 or .357. In fact, those manuals only show 231 and 296 for .38/.357. There is no explanation in the manual why 473AA is not listed for handguns.
Judging from the relative loads in 20ga, the 473AA should be about the right speed for .38 and only moderate .357 loads. It is too fast for true magnum loads. I have never seen any pistol data for it.
If I still had some good 473AA powder, I'd load up 7/8oz of 9s in 20ga hulls.
Last edited:
WSF is listed in the current Winchester manual for 20 ga skeet, giving the identical powder charges listed in the old manual for 473AA. That does not prove they are the same, but I would believe WSF before WSL as a probable match to old 473AA.
Now you have my curiosity up, and I am going to have to try the WSF in 20ga skeet loads. If it does give the same reaults as the old 473AA, I will stop using Unique altogether (yes, heresy, I know, but Unique does not meter like ball powder in a progressive press)
fredj338
Member
Wow, you guys haven't been loading long enough. LOL! The Speer #11 has loads for 38sp & 473AA.
158grLSWC - 4.4gr-4.8gr
158grJHP - 5.2gr-5.7gr (they show 5.8gr as +P)
I doubt it is exactly WSL, WSL has it's own place on various burn rate charts a bit slower than 473AA. I tried a # in 45acp, but it wasn't that accurate for me.
158grLSWC - 4.4gr-4.8gr
158grJHP - 5.2gr-5.7gr (they show 5.8gr as +P)
I doubt it is exactly WSL, WSL has it's own place on various burn rate charts a bit slower than 473AA. I tried a # in 45acp, but it wasn't that accurate for me.
Last edited:
surveyor47
Member
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2005
- Messages
- 182
- Reaction score
- 5
Winchester 473AA is one of the two worst powders that I know of. In fact, I found it to be freaky. About 30 years ago I used to load it for 20 gauge and found that it would nearly squib with one load and go off like a cannon on the next. I remember watching the wad and shot stream come out of the barrel and actually hit the target, leaving the barrel full of unburned powder. It seems that load compression is critical with this powder. I switched to IMR4756 and had no further problem. For 12 gauge Green Dot is fantastic.
The other powder to avoid is Blue Dot, which now has WARNINGS by Hodgdon that it is NOT SUITABLE for 357 Magnum 125 grain bullets or ANY 41 Magnum loading. Thirty years ago I ruined a S&W19 with a starting load of Blue Dot and Speer 125 grain JHPs, and I have preached against Blue Dot in handguns ever since. It is a fantastic 12 gauge magnum loading for 2 3/4" shells and lead shot- now illegal for waterfowl. I used to use Blue Dot, 1 1/2 ounce of #2 shot and Blue Dot for geese and it worked very well.
Hodgdon - The Gun Powder People
The other powder to avoid is Blue Dot, which now has WARNINGS by Hodgdon that it is NOT SUITABLE for 357 Magnum 125 grain bullets or ANY 41 Magnum loading. Thirty years ago I ruined a S&W19 with a starting load of Blue Dot and Speer 125 grain JHPs, and I have preached against Blue Dot in handguns ever since. It is a fantastic 12 gauge magnum loading for 2 3/4" shells and lead shot- now illegal for waterfowl. I used to use Blue Dot, 1 1/2 ounce of #2 shot and Blue Dot for geese and it worked very well.
Hodgdon - The Gun Powder People
surveyor47
Member
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2005
- Messages
- 182
- Reaction score
- 5
DONT Trust that Speer Reloading Manual #9. That is the manual that lists Blue Dot for the load that wrecked my Model 19. For other powders, I found that starting loads in that manual are maximum loads for my guns. That manaual predates use of pressure guns.
HI, i have around 10 pounds of each 452AA and 473AA in jars that are not the original case for these powders.
So now i am confused in which is which.
Does someone have a picture of either of this powders so i can compare it to mine.
Please i need help...
So now i am confused in which is which.
Does someone have a picture of either of this powders so i can compare it to mine.
Please i need help...
^^If you don't know what it is, dump it. Better safe than sorry. I don't know why it would be in a jar.
I used Blue Dot per Speer #9 in my Blackhawk .41 for years with no problems, even in AK in the extreme cold. Lucky maybe, but its performance was outstanding.
I used Blue Dot per Speer #9 in my Blackhawk .41 for years with no problems, even in AK in the extreme cold. Lucky maybe, but its performance was outstanding.
Sundancer2004
Member
Check Speer Manual #11, 1987, it has some data
fredj338
Member
This is why you NEVER store powder in unmarked, preferably original containers. It's very diff to determine one powder from another by looks alone. Some powders, yes ca. Be, like Bluedot from RedDot, the colored flakes give it away, but 452aa from 473aa, not sure you want to go there. I would toss it unless it was all I had in a shtf situation.
I'll go take a look at my supplies of the two powders.
I am pretty certain they do not look alike. I used to use quite a bit of 473 in the 20 ga skeet loads. I was told once that 473 and HS-5 were identical. HS-6 is Win 540 HS-7 is Win 571 and I know Hodgson sold Win 452 at one time under their own brand name. HS-5 and 473 do not resemble each other though.
I am pretty certain they do not look alike. I used to use quite a bit of 473 in the 20 ga skeet loads. I was told once that 473 and HS-5 were identical. HS-6 is Win 540 HS-7 is Win 571 and I know Hodgson sold Win 452 at one time under their own brand name. HS-5 and 473 do not resemble each other though.
The Speer #11 manual has load data for pistol calibers for the 473AA and 452AA powders. They are not in any way similar even though they look similar. I used 473AA and 452AA to shoot 12ga trap competitively in Alaska years ago. We shot year around so the info that 473AA doesn't like cold weather is B.S. I liked 473AA because it shot much softer than 452AA and achieved the same velocity. I'm using the large supply I have to load 45 ACP and 38 Special but am careful going off the page with different bullets, the Speer #11 is the closest I have to load data for 473AA and 454AA. WSF may have been the replacement for 473AA, but it's not the same and trying to relate burn chart data to loading quantities is a recipe for disaster.
