Marlin and S&W breaktops...one and the same?

[mm6mm6]

Here's a Marlin .32 breaktop:



And here's a S&W .32 breaktop:



And here's the other side of both:





Boy do they ever look the same. Except for the grips, they appear identical in virtually every detail. Did S&W make the little breaktops for Marlin? I wonder if the internals of a S&W could be used to fix a Marlin?

I know the Iver Johnson and Harrington & Richardson breaktops were similar to S&W's in general appearance only. But I am surprised at how similar the Marlins appear to be.

Does anyone know the facts on this?

-Steve

[mm6mm6]

Here's a Marlin .32 breaktop:



And here's a S&W .32 breaktop:



And here's the other side of both:





Boy do they ever look the same. Except for the grips, they appear identical in virtually every detail. Did S&W make the little breaktops for Marlin? I wonder if the internals of a S&W could be used to fix a Marlin?

I know the Iver Johnson and Harrington & Richardson breaktops were similar to S&W's in general appearance only. But I am surprised at how similar the Marlins appear to be.

Does anyone know the facts on this?

-Steve

[walnutred]

Is the Marlin frame bigger? It seems to be a 6 shot while the S&W seems to be 5. The set screw on the hinge screw is another obvious difference.

[deadin]

The Marlin .32 is a 6 shot. (The Marlin .38 is a 5 shot)
The Marlin cylinder flutes are longer than the Smith's. As pointed out, the bug screw in the hinge. The rear web of the trigger guard appears to be wider on the Marlin. Other than that, why mess with a proven design?
I would be interested to see what the innards look like. Any chance of some pics with the side plates and grips pulled?

[Jellybean]

There is a little information on them in "Pistols of the World". They were copies of S&Ws, instead of the other way around. The book states they were of poor quality and there weren't a lot of them made. Marlin got out of the handgun business and concentrated on rifles and shotguns. It appears your model was made between 1887 to 1900.

[opoefc]

I have about 40 of these Marlin DA revolvers in my Marlin collection. The frames seem identical to S&W DA frames but there are lots of little differences in the other parts. I first got interested in these guns about 35 yrs ago when I bought a collection of engraved S&W .38 DA revolvers and in the collection was a magnificient Nimschke engraved Marlin .38DA that the seller had never noticed was not a S&W, but was a Marlin. At that time, my old friend Bill Brophy was working on his book on Marlins, so I asked him about these DA revolvers. He said there was alway a rumor that S&W had made the frames for these gun for Marlin, but he had not yet been able to find records in the archives to confirm that. When he published his book, there is no mention of the rumor being true, so I assume he never found any evidence to confirm it, one way or another. Jinks has also never found any thing in the S&W archives about a contract with Marlin to make frames, so it's still a mystery. I tend to doubt the rumor as being true, as Marlin had been making their own frames for the many models of Marlin SA revolvers for years, so it isn't that they had any lack of machinery or skilled workers.

[vytautus]

I just bought my first Marlin 1887 38 DA. I took it apart the innards are nearly identical to the S&W DA. The side plates interchange and fit exactly. If Smith didn't make the frame Marlin copied it exactly. The hammer is the same as the one in my second model 38 DA with out the fly. I wonder if marlin bought the old unfinished second model frames and modified the barrel and cylinder retaining mechanism. My pistol is serial 650 and does not have the set screw in the hinge. The cylinder does not screw on like the Smith. It has a little retaining lock, near the latch, that keeps the cylinder in, by rubbing on the rear perimeter of it.

[opoefc]

After thinking this over, what may have happened is that Marlin, for whatever reason, bought time from S&W for use of the S&W drop forge and perhaps supplied the bar stock and used S&W's frame dies to stamp out the frames for their DA revolvers. That would have been cheaper for Marlin than having to make new dies for these guns, and S&W would get revenue for what would have been down time at their forge. I think I'll take a couple of these Marlins & S&Ws, mix up the parts and make up some Smithlins and Marwessons and ask the experts at Tucson meet to explain what they are! Or would that be a dirty trick? Ed.

[twaits]

Boy I would love to see those pictures that were removed....

[smitholdtimer]

Meee Tooooo on the pictures.

[vytautus]

I will pull the side plate, and grips on the marlin 1887 and put it next to my disassembled 2nd model DA and get some pictures up on this thread. The interchangeability is to strange to be a coincidence. Oh, if anyone has a front sear and un-bobbed hammer for the 2nd model 38 DA let me know

[twaits]

Boy do they ever look the same. Except for the grips, they appear identical in virtually every detail. Did S&W make the little breaktops for Marlin? I wonder if the internals of a S&W could be used to fix a Marlin?

I know the Iver Johnson and Harrington & Richardson breaktops were similar to S&W's in general appearance only. But I am surprised at how similar the Marlins appear to be.

Does anyone know the facts on this?

-Steve[/QUOTE]

Steve, can you put those photos back in your photobucket account so we can see them? This is very interesting and I would like to see the comparison photos to see what we are discussing here. Thanks!

[vytautus]

The top gun with the cylinder on it is the Marlin 1887 see the cylinder retaining catch near the latch. I just checked the side plates again they fit down about half way but there is a slight difference in the angle around the edge of the plates. The marlin does not have a serial on the cylinder but has a matching one on the barrel latch.
The one below is the S&W 2nd model DA. Both are .38's. The hammers and side plates are very similar.