I have an old 10 ga Mark II Flare Pistol, serial numbered 253, and am wondering if anyone has any information on how many of these are around. I have searched the Internet and can not find any examples.

I also contacted Roy Jinks, who was very helpful, but could only confirm that S&W made a small number of flare pistols around the turn of the century. Even Roy did not have an example or even any pictures in his collection.

I have a couple of pictures posted and would appreciate any comments from members who might have seen or owned one of these pistols.

Thanks in advance for any assistance,

Avid S&W Collector

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Briefly mentioned on page 372 of our "book". not much info, and no idea of value. All that said this thing is cool! Thanks for sharing it with us. I'm sure someone will be here that knows something about them. Hope you stick around and post some other photos of equally cool stuff. Kyle

That thing is very cool. Thanks for the pictures.

I believe the national archives has the contracts between the US and S&W for the manufacture of these flare pistols, so research there may help the estimating of how many were delivered to the US Gov't. I know the contracts for the S&W made bayonet scabbards for the Springfield trapdoor rifles, for approx. 17,000 scabbards, are in the archives, and they are mentioned in the same 1899 newspaper article describing the flare pistols ( see SCSW p. 372 ) About 2,000 scabbards were delivered before the contract was cancelled and the Spanish American war was over. I have one of these Trapdoor rifles, with the S&W scabbard, that was issued to the US Navy in WW 2 ! ( Yes, that's WW Two, not WW one! ) Ed.

Ed, tell us what you were doing that day when the paperboy delivered the 1899 newspaper and subsequent article??? I envision you sitting on the veranda having coffee with toast and jam.

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James Redfield
LM #497

Thanks everyone for the replies. As I suspected, I did not find anyone that actually owns one of these Mark II flare pistols.

Leads me to believe there are not many left out there. That makes it very hard to value. Guess I will just go ahead and shoot of a flare or 2 every July 4th!

Hello,

First of all I'm sorry to post on a old thread but I think it would be interesting. I got a flare gun mark II with serial number 263. I would like to know the year of manufacturing.

Thanks by advance and cheers from France !

Ops, and here is the pictures :

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There is not a great deal of information out there, but what we do know it that Remington manufactured the bulk of the Mark IIs from 1896 to around 1900. I have only ran across a handful of S&W marked pistols and the highest number was in the 300s. Remington also manufactured a Mark III for WWI, but there are no records that S&W was involved in production of the Mark III.

It is thought that S&W was contracted to deliver 3000 to Remington, but most experts suspect that very few were actually delivered, so there are not many out there. A Springfield newspaper from 1899 states that two orders for a large number of signal pistols was completed, but no other information noted. From the research I did, my suspicion is that Remington had the order with the government and S&W was a sub-contractor to Remington. I think the newspaper actually referred to the overall contract, which was mostly filled by Remington and only a few were stamped Smith & Wesson.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

I own one as well. My computer crashed and I'm getting it fixed. I'll post pictures when I can.

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Don Mundell

Don - I will help you out until your computer is up and running.

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	S&W Flare Pistol 005.jpg (104.9 KB, 42 views)
	S&W Flare Pistol 007.JPG (136.4 KB, 45 views)

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Gary
SWCA 2515

What is the legal status of these? Like a shotgun with a barrel less than 18"?

When I was trying to get information on the 10 ga Flare Gun, Roy said they were most likely all manufactured before 1898 and would be antiques, so they are basically non-firearms. Besides you would only shoot these once with a standard 10 ga. shotgun shell. With the brass frame, short chamber, and very thin-walled barrel I don't think they would survive the blast.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

I wonder if the flares were similar to the ones we have today ?

I had a set, with white, green, and red. They were about 2 1/2" long and used a paper/brass casing.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

This is a thread from the IAA website which discusses Very signal cartridges: International Ammunition Association {iaaforum.org} - View topic - Very gun signal cartridges (flares) 10 GA

Thanks everyone for your responses. I'm really impressed by the manufacturing of this flaregun, it's well done for a weapon of this era. Anyway I can't keep it, my girlfriend want me to sell it and it's pretty illegal in France to own even this kind of antique gun without authorization. What will be the better way ? I was thinking about something like gun-auction like website, something secure for the buyer and for me. I wish I can sell it to someone who already have a collection of these.
Thanks by advance to everyone.

Does French law designate it as a firearm, as it was not intended to fire a projectile? Maybe there is a loophole allowing you to keep it.

I have the one that is pictured. It does fire a 10 GA round. After I bought it from Gary, I bought a Remington with a belt, holster and 50 10 GA blanks. I haven't fired it, but, you could shoot it.

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Don Mundell

Your welcome. Please check you Private Message for a couple of suggestions.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

For what it's worth, Carl Hellstrom was planning to write a book on the History of Smith & Wessom, however he passed away before he finished it. he did have a set of notes made up from S&W archives to use as a guide for the book. In my copy of those notes I found the following comment:

Quote: " Smith & Wesson Flare Pistol" (Model unknown ) Bore - reportedly about 12 ga. There are not any records of dates, numbers manufactured, or design. Rumor has it they were made on contract for the U.S.Navy. Only one production run occurred, and the quanities were not large. The gun has a cast brass frame, a highly polished blue steel barrel which breaks open like a shotgun. The gun used a stud trigger and firing pin ignition through a hammer which looked much like a 44 Russian model hammer, but with a flat face. The design may, or may not, have been original with Smith & Wesson. The guns were apparently stamped with our name, but probably not serial numbered. End of quote.

Ed

Very cool piece. Here is a later version my dad has.

I have one of the Mark II that has the serial number 173, and can't find anything, anywhere.