Smith & Wesson Perfected with Ivory Updated

merl67 · Jul 13, 2012

At a pawn shop today they had a Perfected model nickle with factory ivory the nickle has been redone the hammer and trigger are still case hardened I put the gun on layaway till I could decide Price is $600.00 deal or no deal serial number is in the 58000 range 1920? cell phone pictures sorry

cflier · Jul 14, 2012

I'd say it is a great deal, those grips are worth 2 to 3 hundred dollars alone. Factory ivory medallion grips are very scarce.

H Richard · Jul 14, 2012

I'd try and get the price down. With the re-nickle the collectors value is way down, say about $250, then the grips maybe another $250, so I'd say $500 tops. But then I haven't had the chance to hold it in my hand and drool on it yet. No, I don't have a "perfected" in my collection yet.

moosedog · Jul 14, 2012

I'd say $600 would be a good deal if it was not refinished. Still, a good looking revolver.

glowe · Jul 15, 2012

I really like the Perfected model. They were one of the only S&W top-breaks originally designed for smokeless powders, with a heavier frame and double locking mechanism. While there were 60,000 made, many were exported, making them less common in the US. Also, the revolver you are looking at would have a 1914 patent date, of which only about 5000 were made late in production. Most production was under the 1909 patent date.

What makes you think this revolver has been refinished? Your pictures are not very clear, but I can see no rounded corners. This revolver was made around the WWI era, when many revolvers did not have the S&W logo stamped on the frame. Are the barrel stampings clear? If this was a dresser drawer queen, the value would exceed what they are asking for the piece.

I have a few of this model and the last one I purchased was a bargain at an online auction that apparently no one knew it was not a standard 38 DA. It came with target grips, which were an option for the Perfected. Serial number is 579xx, which was shipped in 1919

merl67 · Jul 15, 2012

Thanks for the replies. Glowe the barrel markings are shallow but whomever did it did not make the mistake of plating the hammer and trigger making me think factory no I am not certain it has been refinished looking at others on line this ones markings look a little too shallow. Now I have to contemplate the price is a little high for a top break but then again this is not an average top break and how often will I ever run into one. As the saying goes I might just buy too early

merl67 · Sep 21, 2012

I took the gun off layaway and let them put it back on sale price was just a little too high this was back in July. Went back today they still had it I asked how much now he said how much will you give I said $275.00 out the door he said sold new pictures to follow. Also the last patent date is Sept 14 09 and the serial number is in the 58000 range that doesn't seem to be correct for what I have read.

Jim Watson · Sep 21, 2012

Wow, that's what patience got you, less than half the original price.

Masterpiece · Sep 22, 2012

merl67 said:
Also the last patent date is Sept 14 09 and the serial number is in the 58000 range that doesn't seem to be correct for what I have read.

merl67,

Your Revolver being in the 58,000 Serial No. Range should be just fine having the Sept.14,1909 Patent Date which was added late in production!! Yours most likely dates to 1918-1919, but as S&W shipped their Revolvers in no specific order by Serial No., a Research Letter is the only way to know for sure!!

By the way, even with the Refinish, I'd have to say you made an Exc. Deal especially if the Grips are undamaged!! Sometimes it pays to wait it out a bit!!

opoefc · Sep 22, 2012

Masterpiece, ..."S&W produced their revolvers in no specific order by serial number." Sorry, that's not true. I think you probably meant they shipped in no specific order. Production was always strictly by serial number progression. Occasionally they would set aside a large block of numbers to be used for future projects, but even then the production was by serial number sequence in the batch. I have production logs for 1,000s of S&W and I've never found any out of sequence guns, except for occasional duplicate numbers. When you think about it, there's no logic in jumping around with serial numbers. The machines that numbered the frames automatically numbered each frame in sequence, unless there was a break down of the die, etc. If random numbering was used, it would have been difficult to keep correct track of how many guns were made or pay piece rate production workers for what they produced. Ed.

Masterpiece · Sep 22, 2012

opoefc said:
Masterpiece, ..."S&W produced their revolvers in no specific order by serial number." Sorry, that's not true. I think you probably meant they shipped in no specific order.

Hi Ed,

Thanks for catching that early on, you're exactly correct!! I knew that it just came out wrong when I typed it!!

Thanks again & I'll edit it to read correctly right now!!

glowe · Sep 22, 2012

Masterpiece said:
Your Revolver being in the 58,000 Serial No. Range should be just fine having the Sept.14,1909 Patent Date which was added late in production!!

Actually, the high serial number guns that I have seen all have a 1914 patent date. I have one that has the 1914 patent date and sn 579XX. Another with 540XX has the 1909 patent date, so somewhere after that the 1914 patent appeared. 1914 gun is below.

I am sure that Merl67 gun could have been assembled at the factory with older barrel at the end of the Perfected's production run. Never let a good frame go to waste.

Masterpiece · Sep 22, 2012

glowe said:
Actually, the high serial number guns that I have seen all have a 1914 patent date.

glowe,

Well, it's certainly hard to argue with a photo...Isn't it?? Honestly, in my many years of collecting, I can't believe I've never encountered a Perfected with the 1914 Patent Date applied or I certainly wouldn't have posted the Sept.14,1909 date was the last one to be used!! It also contradicts all information known to me for Barrel Patent Markings applied to these Perfected's unless some new information has come to light over the years I'm not aware of!! And lastly, if memory serves, I was always under the impression Roy even considered the 1909 Date to be the last one used on them as well!! Whatever the case may be....I stand corrected!! I guess you "Can" teach an "Old Dog" new tricks!! Thanks!!

opoefc · Sep 22, 2012

If there's anything that we S&W collectors have learned over the years is that S&Ws can always be found that are the "exceptions" to the norm. Sometimes answering "why" on a particular gun can be easy because of S&Ws passion for never throwing anything away that might be used someday - other times, it's just a head scratching exercise with multiple possibilities of "why ?" Bottom line: It's never a dull moment when it comes to S&W ! Ed.

glowe · Sep 22, 2012

Masterpiece said:
Well, it's certainly hard to argue with a photo...Isn't it?? Honestly, in my many years of collecting, I can't believe I've never encountered a Perfected with the 1914 Patent Date applied or I certainly wouldn't have posted the Sept.14,1909 date was the last one to be used!

Well you made me get into the vault to recheck serial numbers, but all match, so the gun came from the factory that way. Roy stated that this one was shipped September, 1919. His S&W 1857-1945 book states that the Perfected Model was manufactured from 1909 to 1920, so it seems reasonable that anything after 1914 should have that patent date, but maybe they had to use up all their old 1909 barrels until near the very end of production. So now I have a rare issue - neat.

Masterpiece · Sep 22, 2012

opoefc said:
If there's anything that we S&W collectors have learned over the years is that S&Ws can always be found that are the "exceptions" to the norm. Bottom line: It's never a dull moment when it comes to S&W!

Hi Ed,

Very true...that's most assuredly the way I've found it to be as well!!

Especially regarding this 1914 Barrel Patent Date I know now to have been applied on these Late-Production Perfected's!! Reason being, some years back I had a fairly large collection of the Smaller Caliber S&W Top-Breaks & never having encountered a Perfected with this Late of a Barrel Patent Date was sure news to me!! Imagine that...."Still learning after all these years"!! Ha!~Ha!

Masterpiece · Sep 22, 2012

glowe said:
Well you made me get into the vault to recheck serial numbers, but all match, so the gun came from the factory that way. Roy stated that this one was shipped September, 1919. His S&W 1857-1945 book states that the Perfected Model was manufactured from 1909 to 1920, so it seems reasonable that anything after 1914 should have that patent date, but maybe they had to use up all their old 1909 barrels until near the very end of production. So now I have a rare issue - neat.

glowe,

Sorry, I didn't mean to get you doubting yourself!! Ha!~Ha! Although the 1914 Date does make sense when you think about it as most all of the Hand-Ejectors produced 1915 & later carried the Dec.29,1914 Patent Date on their Barrels so why shouldn't the Perfected Models as well!!

By the way, without further research into it, I don't think I'd go as far as saying you have a "Rare Issue" just yet, but something more along the line that this Patent Marking is not commonly seen on the Perfected Models as there surely can't be many produced shipped with that 1914 Patent Date!! Especially if S&W was using up Earlier-Produced Barrels until production ceased as they're well-known for doing with their other Model Revolvers in the past!! Who's to know for sure???

merl67 · Sep 23, 2012

Thank you all for the comments and education this is the first top break for my small Smith & Wesson collection. Took the grips off today to do some clean up they have a price of $10.75 on each grip written in ink no serial number on them so does that mean they were purchased later? Also the side plate and hinge screws are blued or casehardened here are a few new pictures

Masterpiece · Sep 23, 2012

Hi merl67,

Boy, what wonders a real camera can do!! She's a real beauty regardless of the refinish!! An excellent deal to say the least!! You did good!!

Anyway, I'm sure the Grips were added after the fact, but with a $10.75 Price Tag, I assure you it was a long, long time ago!! They're also in excellent condition by what I'm seeing!! They have alot of character & have aged nicely!! Also, whoever it was that did the refinish wasn't his/her first try at it either!! Nice Job!! The Fire-Blued Screws really look good on it as well!!

I'd say you got quite the deal at $275!! Nice Revolver!!

glowe · Sep 23, 2012

The ivory stocks are definitely S&W, but whether they started out on your gun can only be told by a factory letter. I am convinced that the factory did not mark 100% of their stocks, so never say never. They do not fit perfectly, but ivory can shrink with age, so only a letter will tell originality. I am guessing a very good refinish on this gun. Did you find any numbers stamped on the frame below the left stock? S&W stamped their returned guns with a number month and year.

Can you clearly read the top barrel roll marks?

Smith & Wesson Perfected with Ivory Updated

Member

US Veteran

US Veteran

Attachments

Member

Member

US Veteran

Member

US Veteran

Attachments

Member

US Veteran

US Veteran

Member

Member

Attachments

Member

US Veteran

Similar threads