Factory engraved? Model 1 3rd issue

rlee1976 · #1 07-21-2012, 02:48 PM

Hey folks. Just bought this old Model 1 third issue Smith. Serial 66xxx, which puts it about midway through production, about 1875? I'd just like to hear any information anyone can give me about it, especially what the pin underneath the barrel does, the one that looks like a cylinder retaining pin. Is it just decorative? There are traces of gold plating in the protected areas, would this gun have been originally completely gold washed, or nickel/gold small parts, or silver/gold? I think it's factory engraved, based on some pics of similarly engraved revolvers from this time period. Who might have done the engraving? Function is perfect and it locks up rock solid, can anyone recommend some ammo that I might be able to shoot in it? Any info will be appreciated. Thanks, Ryan

murphydog · #2 07-21-2012, 03:10 PM

The "pin" is to remove fired cases by removing the cylinder and pushing them out via the cylinder face. Some use BB caps (primer only, .22 Short length) and report no problems.

And now, the engraving experts will be along...

. It wouldn't surprise me if it is factory or done by one of the distributors prior to retail sale. Hope this is helpful.

rlee1976 · #3 07-21-2012, 03:47 PM

How does the pin work? It doesn't seem to budge, and besides, there's no loading gate, etc, where the pin could extend through to poke the brass out, a la the Colt SAA or Lightning. The whole cylinder comes out for reloading. Oh, I see, are you just supposed to remove the cylinder and then "impale" it on the pin to remove each spent shell casing individually? I probably just answered my own question, but please confirm. Thanks.

DGT · #4 07-21-2012, 04:00 PM

That's correct, you've figured it out. Very nice revolver.

glowe · #5 07-21-2012, 04:02 PM

When you tip-up the barrel and remove the cylinder, place the front of the cylinder opening on the pin and push out the empty casing. Do this 7 times to remove all fired casings. Fortunately, when S&W came out with top break revolvers, they designed a self-extracting star to quickly remove all the casings at once.

Nice old Model One and it sure looks like factory engraving to me. I think your ship date would have been closer to 1870-1871. Also, I would guess that your revolver finish was all nickel when manufactured.

rlee1976 · #6 07-21-2012, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by murphydog

The "pin" is to remove fired cases by removing the cylinder and pushing them out via the cylinder face. Some use BB caps (primer only, .22 Short length) and report no problems.

And now, the engraving experts will be along...

. It wouldn't surprise me if it is factory or done by one of the distributors prior to retail sale. Hope this is helpful.

I think the bb caps might be fun! You think they're totally safe to fire in this gun?

rlee1976 · #7 07-21-2012, 04:10 PM

What about the finish? Besides the gold that I see, am I looking at a gun that's in the white (i.e. the gun used to be totally gold plated and it's now worn off to the bare metal), or was the gun mostly silver or nickel plated? Or is there a base coat finish that's usually applied before the gun is gold plated?

glowe · #8 07-21-2012, 04:12 PM

Looking at your pictures again, it may also have had a blued barrel and cylinder, since some were made in a two-tone finish.

I have shot quite a few 22 CB Caps in my #1s and they functioned fine. I have chronographed both original BP shorts and CB Caps. BP shorts develop higher velocities than the CBs, so if you can find BB caps, they will register slower speed than CBs..

nutsforsmiths · #9 07-26-2012, 10:46 PM

I own one of these with serial number 72xxx and it shipped in 1872, so I would think yours would be from 1870-1871.

Mine is also engraved with a blued finish. I sent for a factory letter on mine to see if the engraving was done at the factory or not. The letter came back saying it was factory engraved.

Sending for a factory letter is really the only way you are going to know for sure if it left the factory as an engraved gun or not. The letter will also give you some information about the finish as well.

rlee1976 · #10 07-26-2012, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nutsforsmiths

I own one of these with serial number 72xxx and it shipped in 1872, so I would think yours would be from 1870-1871.

Mine is also engraved with a blued finish. I sent for a factory letter on mine to see if the engraving was done at the factory or not. The letter came back saying it was factory engraved.

Sending for a factory letter is really the only way you are going to know for sure if it left the factory as an engraved gun or not. The letter will also give you some information about the finish as well.

Can you post a pic or two of the gun? I'd like to compare the engraving to mine. Thanks, Ryan

L. Williams · #11 07-29-2012, 10:49 AM

In my opinion your #1 is not factory engraved. It appears to me to be after-market, New York style engraved, probably in the shop of L.D. Nimschke, as the patterns are in his style. A factory letter is the only way to know for sure. That being said, you have a very attractive gun and possibly engraved by Nimschke himself. L. Williams

rlee1976 · #12 07-29-2012, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L. Williams

In my opinion your #1 is not factory engraved. It appears to me to be after-market, New York style engraved, probably in the shop of L.D. Nimschke, as the patterns are in his style. A factory letter is the only way to know for sure. That being said, you have a very attractive gun and possibly engraved by Nimschke himself. L. Williams

Thanks for your input. I thought it might be Nimschke, I just didn't know if he had engraved for S&W. I might get a letter on it, but I read somewhere that S&W doesn't have factory records for a period of time in the late 1800s. Any truth to this? And how much does a factory letter cost?
Thanks,
Ryan

deadin · #13 07-29-2012, 04:21 PM

I have a Model 1 1/2 that has been attributed to Nimschke by one of our expert dealer/members. However the factory letter merely says delivered to M.W.Robinson in NYC. This is quite common as most of the engraved small guns from that period were contracted out by the distributor. They also kept a supply of MOP stocks and would replace the original rosewood ones when having the gun engraved.
On my gun the opinion is that Nimschke did the frame engraving and somebody else in his shop did the barrel and cylinder. I have a series of pictures of different sections of the engraving if you are interested.
If you can find a copy of "L. D. NIMSCHKE FIREARMS ENGRAVER" by Wilson, you can possibly match up some of the motifs on your gun from his impressions and pictures.

rlee1976 · #14 07-29-2012, 04:39 PM

I would love to see the engraving on your gun and compare it to mine.
Thanks,
Ryan

deadin · #15 07-29-2012, 06:00 PM

Ryan,
Here you go........

I maxed out at 5 files. See next post.......
(click on a picture to get a larger view...)

deadin · #16 07-29-2012, 06:07 PM

Here's the rest....

The last picture is of some comparisons between some motifs on my gun (on the right) and some original Nimschke patterns on the left. (From the the book I mentioned)

nutsforsmiths · #17 07-29-2012, 06:35 PM

Here is a picture of my engraved Model 1, 3rd Issue,

Since it is a blued finished gun it is difficult to get good pictures of the engraving.

rlee1976 · #18 07-30-2012, 12:09 AM

Here are a couple more interesting pics. The first shows an area at the top of the back strap on my gun that looks like it was meant to be engraved with a monogram or crest of some kind. It looks like maybe it was left blank so whoever bought the gun could personalize it? The second pic is of the back strap of my gun and looks similar to deadin's picture from his book, the pattern at the bottom right corner. You might also be able to see more gold plating on the back of the hammer.

rlee1976 · #19 07-30-2012, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadin

Ryan,
Here you go........

I maxed out at 5 files. See next post.......
(click on a picture to get a larger view...)

The engraving on the left sideplate looks very similar to mine, what with the punch-dot style.

rhmc24 · #20 07-30-2012, 07:20 AM

See mine 2nd. below. Sorry about all the others but this is the only pix of it I have on server. I see quite a lot in common, similar engraving style, gold wash, etc. Unfortunately mine has had s/n polished off.

L. Williams · #21 08-12-2012, 03:29 PM

Hello Ryan, The cost for a S&W historical letter is $50.00. Nimschke engraved many Smith and Wessons. He was not employed by any factory, but was an independant contractor, and engraved many different manufacturers guns. I've not heard anything about missing records on late 19th century S&W's personally. L. Williams