I've had this piece for a while and I've dated it to 1881. Basically the cylinder spins freely until it is cocked (then it locks up as tight as a brand new revolver).
There does not seem to be a half cock, is the cylinder bolt sheared off somewhat or were these guns made this way?

The quick answer is that the cylinder should remain locked until the hammer is cocked. Also, there is no half-cock on these spur triggered revolvers. There are a few reasons for this happening. First and foremost is dirt and debris inside the mechanism, making the cylinder stop sticky, but that one is easy to remedy. Another option is that the cylinder spring is either weak or broken, but this spring can be easily made by a competent gunsmith or machinist.

Lastly, there may be sufficient wear on the parts to not allow the stop to rise high enough to catch the cylinder until it is cocked. This problem either requires a part replacement or sometimes a weld bead to be placed on top of the stop and working the metal down until the revolver functions correctly.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

There are a bunch of 'ifs' that come to mind. If it is an S&W, then it should not spin freely and if it is a .38 Single Action, Second Model, then it should have a half cock. It most likely has a broken half cock notch on the hammer or the trigger sear is chipped. The cylinder bolt is trigger activated. If the notch is broken or the trigger is chipped, then the trigger hits the cylinder bolt too soon; unlocking it (in this case; holding it open). Slowly cock the revolver and see if the cylinder locks before the hammer is at full cock. I suspect that the hammer must be pulled rearward farther than full cock to get the cylinder to lock. If you can hold it a little closer to the monitor, I might get a better look at it. My thoughts.

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Mike Maher #283

That is interesting. I have 2 of these 2nd Models and neither have any hint of a half-cock, yet both lock up the cylinder at full cock as well as when the hammer is at rest. I guess I will have to pop the sideplates and take a look.

ADDITION: As usual you are correct, I had to go back and look at them again. It turns out that the half-cock actually occurs at about an 1/8 cock. The slightest pull of the trigger drops the cylinder stop and the trigger is at rest with only about an 1/8" gap from frame. Learn something every day here!

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Gary
SWCA 2515

OK, while cocking the hammer I can feel it engage the cylinder as I pull it rearward, but feel nothing remotely like a half cock or anything similar. I'll try and get some pics up to see if its the stop being worn down too much. That said, do you have to be a watchmaker to get inside one of these to fix them or do I need to send it to someone?

Altogether, there are about 50 parts that make up your revolver, but it is not all that complicated to take apart and get back together. When I disassemble a new to me model, I take several pictures as I am working, which help greatly getting it back together. There is an excellent book by David Chicoine named "Antique Firearms Assembly/Disassembly" in paperback that covers over 60 guns, including over 20 S&Ws. I would guess you could get a copy on Amazon, and maybe pick up a used copy there or on Abe's Books.

The first thing I would do is drop out the small plate ahead of the trigger and check the condition of the cylinder stop spring. If in good condition, you can tap out the front pin above the trigger and remove the stop for inspection.

As Mike states, the stop is activated by the trigger and not the hammer. The entire operation of the cylinder locking system can be inspected by removing the trigger and stop, plus the associated springs. The wear point seems to be the front notch of the trigger and the cylinder stop itself.

The trigger spring is a V shaped spring that also could be weak or broken, so that needs to be inspected as well.

Mike will chime in soon with his thoughts, but I just checked Chicoine's book it sure looks like the trigger independently operates the cylinder stop without regard to whether the half-cock sear is there or not. The cylinder stop operation is dependent on the trigger orientation as the hammer is pulled back. I suppose if the hammer is heavily worn, it would affect the position and angle of the trigger as the gun was cocked.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

Ok, I see what you mean and notice the trigger moves as the hammer moves. When working them both I could almost feel what you describe as the 1/8 cock and with the hammer in that position and rearward pressure on the trigger the cylinder stops, but once I let go the trigger it spins.
It remains locked at full cock and after firing, but once I pull the hammer back to wear that "half" cock should be and the firing pin is out of the gap she spins again.
Now I can get it to lock if I play with the trigger and hammer, but the firing pin is visible in the gap, so maybe it is something with a spring or a notch?
I'll bust out the micro hollow ground drivers and take a look inside.
She's the big girl on the left in this pic

OK I feel tension on the cylinder as soon as I pull the hammer rearward. When the firing pin is retracted to the safe position on the halfcock, the cylinder spins but once it clears that the cylinder locks up. I guess basically the cylinder really only spins at halfcock

Hi from Texas,
I'm away from home so I can't access my books. Another test comes to mind.. With the hammer fully down, if you pull the trigger, does the cylinder lock? Memory tells me that the spring-loaded cylinder stop should pop up to lock the cylinder. You can try this with the revolver broken open and watch for the cylinder stop movement.

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Mike Maher #283

When you get this resolved please post the remedy. I have the
same model with exactly the same problem. I have had it apart, cleaned it well and failed to find anything so I assumed it was working as intended.

With the hammer fully down, the cylinder is locked. If I walk the hammer down to that position, she spins. If I ease that hammer back 1/16" to where you would on an SAA to retract the firing pin, spins.

Took the sideplate off and all looks good, no gunk no gouges, no broken parts. I cannot for the life of me remove the screw on the underside to get a look at that, though.

Mike, I would use a high grade penetrating oil and keep reapplying over a 24 hour period and see if that does the trick. I have also used a soldering iron to heat just the screw, then use an ice cube to quickly cool it. It seems to quickly expand and contract the screw and break the rust bond, then spray it with penetrating oil and let it set another night. Remember to spray and heat both ends of the screw, since you can see it protruding just ahead of the cylinder stop. Hope this helps.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

I have both a 1st and 2nd Model, and they work exactly the same. With the hammer down the cylinder is locked in position. Pulling the hammer back to the "1/8th" position the cylinder spins freely. At the same time, the trigger moves visibly forward. I assume this "1/8th" position exists so that the hammer nose will not strike the primer when the gun is loaded and closed. At full cock the cylinder is locked, and stays locked after the trigger is pulled and hammer is down.

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Peter #2091

I'm back for a few minutes (still stuck in Texas). With the hammer down (fired position) - the cylinder should be locked. At half cock; the cylinder will spin freely. At full cock; the cylinder should be locked. Anything different indicates a broken trigger sear or a broken/recut hammer notch. Again, slowly cock the revolver and see if the cylinder locks before the hammer is at full cock. I suspect that the hammer must be pulled rearward farther than full cock to get the cylinder to lock. A close-up picture of the hammer/trigger sear might explain things.

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Mike Maher #283