My New Winter Hobby

glowe · #1 08-30-2015, 09:38 AM

I could not resist posting this 38 Snub-nosed revolver that sold recently at an online auction. Unless I am mistaken, S&W did not make any 1 1/2" 38 Safety, 5th Models. Anyway, the final price, including Internet premium and shipping was $530.

I am off to the hardware store to buy some hacksaw blades.

g8rb8 · #2 08-30-2015, 09:58 AM

For those of us not in-the-know please educate us about the tell-tale signs that suggest the barrel was modified. This vintage is outside my bailiwick but I did take a quick look at the SCSW and it seems possible such a critter exists as an original S&W creation (?).

Wiregrassguy · #3 08-30-2015, 10:32 AM

Ahhh, Gary. Never say never with S&W...

glowe · #4 08-30-2015, 11:03 AM

It is always possible that a special order could exist, but the shortest barrel length cataloged was 2". I must say that if the buyer is betting on an original factory gun, he is a BIG risk-taker. Oh, I forgot to mention the gun is an early 1900s example, so the buyer takes another hit from his local FFL.

As for how to tell, there is no picture detailed enough to tip anyone off that the barrel was an amateur gunsmith project, but a good gunsmith can easily finish a barrel crown and move the pinned front sight without being able to tell. The normal factory method of stamping the address line and/or the patent dates on a short barreled S&W was to stamp that information on the side of the barrel, but no such stamping exists.

Skeetr57 · #5 08-30-2015, 11:39 AM

Gary: The SCSW says that some were made with 1 1/2" barrels, and one is pictured. You may be right, or not!

mmaher94087 · #6 08-30-2015, 11:48 AM

The work appears to have been done a long time ago and the revolver does not look refinished. Sooo, I'd letter it on the off-chance it is original.

glowe · #7 08-30-2015, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmaher94087

The work appears to have been done a long time ago and the revolver does not look refinished. Sooo, I'd letter it on the off-chance it is original.

I agree Mike that anything is possible, but with the factory letter and the FFL, we are now up to $600. I wonder if it would be worth that much even if it turns out to be a special order 1 1/2" . . .

Göring's S&W · #8 09-02-2015, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glowe

I agree Mike that anything is possible, but with the factory letter and the FFL, we are now up to $600. I wonder if it would be worth that much even if it turns out to be a special order 1 1/2" . . .

Gary - w-t-f! Do you have any idea how rare that barrel length is from the factory! I guess the answer is no since you didnt know any were made in that length at all

! But hey, no one knows everything.

I would gladly pay well over $500 for a lettered 1.5in example!!! David Carroll sold a few lettered specimens a year or so back, and they brought good money.

Masterpiece · #9 09-03-2015, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glowe

I could not resist posting this 38 Snub-nosed revolver that sold recently at an online auction. Unless I am mistaken, S&W did not make any 1 1/2" 38 Safety, 5th Models.

Gary,

Just so you're aware...As has already been noted...There are 5th Model .38 Safety's known to exist with 1 1/2" Barrels so it's definitely possible the one you posted could be very well be Original!! I do agree though...A Factory Letter is needed to confirm it's configuration!!

By chance do you know the Serial No. Range that one was in...If not...Could you post the Link to the Ended Auction given I can't seem to locate it??

glowe · #10 09-03-2015, 09:00 AM

We have discussed factory production models as compared to special orders in the past you will probably be able to find just about any configuration of any early model S&W special ordered, but that gun is not standard production. I did not find any reference in catalogs of the era, plus Roy's book states 2" as the shortest factory barrel length. As Guy stated, I should have known that there could be a few special order guns out there. None of this changes the amount of risk a buyer is taking in paying this kind of money for an undocumented gun with only those 3 pictures. Also, would the factory send out a gun without an address line on the side of the barrel? There are some 1 1/2" 32 Safeties out there and pictures I have seen of these revolvers show an abbreviated barrel address on the side of the gun, so why would you not expect the same on a 1 1/2" 38 Safety?

I tried to retrieve the 38 Safety but it was sold from a small auction house that I had not run across before and their items must have been taken down already. There was not much of a definition and don't recall if there was a serial number??

Masterpiece · #11 09-03-2015, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glowe

We have discussed factory production models as compared to special orders in the past you will probably be able to find just about any configuration of any early model S&W special ordered, but that gun is not standard production. I did not find any reference in catalogs of the era, plus Roy's book states 2" as the shortest factory barrel length. As Guy stated, I should have known that there could be a few special order guns out there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by glowe

Also, would the factory send out a gun without an address line on the side of the barrel? There are some 1 1/2" 32 Safeties out there and pictures I have seen of these revolvers show an abbreviated barrel address on the side of the gun, so why would you not expect the same on a 1 1/2" 38 Safety?

Gary,

First of all...Thanks for letting me know you found the Revolver in a Small Online Auction...That explains why I was unable to locate it!!

Secondly...I agree the 1 1/2" Barrel Length was never "Cataloged" as a Std. Production Length in either Caliber & taking a chance is always a risk!! Although sometimes you just have to take a chance & hope for the best...Isn't that all part of the fun of collecting??

Still in all...As you have also noted...This doesn't change the fact they "Were" available (Special-Order or Otherwise) as I explained to you before when we corresponded through a couple PM's about those I previously owned as well as others that collected Early S&W Small-Frame Top-Breaks in the past!!

As to how the 1 1/2" Barrels were marked...I've found there is no known protocol as to the (Right or Wrong) way these are found & is why a Research Letter is always a must to confirm the configuration!!

Especially so when it comes to Later Model 1 1/2" Revolvers in either Caliber...As I believe I may have made note of in Our Past PM's...Can't say with any degree of certainty though given my memory has been known to fail me from time to time anymore...Ha!!~Ha!! Fact is...There are a few Short-Barreled 5th Model .38 Safety's I'm aware of known to exist with no markings whatsoever on their Barrels...And they "Do" Letter!!