3rd Model Perfected Single Shot .22 with Unusual Sights, Pope Barrel

ol777gunnerz · #1 10-17-2015, 02:03 PM

My latest purchase: 3rd model Perfected .22 as shown, has sights that are unfamiliar to me, added to it, as well as a trigger stop, and of course the H M Pope barrel [Pope serial # 390]. Lockup is tight as well as excellent mechanical condition. All parts have matching serial #4974 [latch, barrel & frame]. Cartridge does not seat all the way on its own, but is easier to push in than the other Olympic chamber barrel on my other 3rd model.

model3sw · #2 10-17-2015, 10:35 PM

Very nice, those Pope barrels !

H Richard · #3 10-18-2015, 09:25 AM

Very lucky find. Have you shot it for accuracy yet?

rct269 · #4 10-18-2015, 10:42 AM

May we see the entire rear sight from above, please-------as close up as possible?

Ralph Tremaine

ol777gunnerz · #5 10-18-2015, 12:53 PM

Photos of rear sight. I have not tried it out yet, will go to indoor range this coming wk. The sight has no identifying marks on it, I removed & looked underneath, must be what I heard called "gunsmith's special."

ol777gunnerz · #6 10-18-2015, 04:27 PM

Grip numbers match also, just looked today, found added lead in frame also.

rct269 · #7 10-18-2015, 07:00 PM

The aft screw (small, centered) changes the height----yes?

RT

ol777gunnerz · #8 10-18-2015, 09:27 PM

Yes, stick small screwdriver in hole to access it.

rct269 · #9 10-18-2015, 09:40 PM

It occurs to me (belatedly) the front screw is perhaps meant to function as a lock/jam screw----somewhat similar to that on the "two screw" sight found on pre-war K & N frame revolvers from what-----1931-32 onward to 1942----not counting the K-22/40. (??)

RT

Although, as I sit and stare at it, it appears to pass through the tang; and may simply attach the sight to its base.

rct269 · #10 10-19-2015, 10:04 AM

As I sit and stare some more, I see something I should have seen first crack out of the box. The sight with/on the latch is that for a 1st/2nd Model--------and having seen that, it explains absolutely nothing.

My knee-jerk response (something I'm pretty good at---more's the pity) is, given this is a fairly early gun, they had not yet made the change in sights. That would seem somewhat reasonable----aside from the fact one of my 3rd Models (an earlier gun-----#4807, shipped November 3, 1915) does have the typical 3rd Model sight.

So, having spent some more time and accomplished nothing, I leave you with your puzzle.

Ralph Tremaine

Skeetr57 · #11 10-20-2015, 09:51 PM

I suspect that HM Pope did not make that barrel, but only relined the original barrel with a liner of his make. Making that whole barrel assembly was probably within his capabilities, but would have been a whole lot of work for nothing gained. The rear sight looks to me like he just made a base for a target revolver sight of the period, because the revolver sight adjustments were better and easier to use than the sights mounted in/on the barrel latch.

ol777gunnerz · #12 10-21-2015, 10:30 AM

Thanks to Ralph Tremaine's help with info, the rear sight itself appears to be a S&W adjustable target sight on an unknown base, yes the HM Pope pistol barrel was redone S&W 3rd model Perfected single shot barrel by him, of which he may or may not have done the sights on it.

ol777gunnerz · #13 04-08-2019, 04:46 PM

Update: found the very rare sight blade for add on sight base, thanks to Ralph, last yr. with his help we determined the correct sight blade and he happened to have one. He generously sold it to me & fits perfectly as shown. Also noted that this was one of the earlier 3rd models serial number wise & has a 1st or 2nd type model target sight base on the barrel catch [all pistol's numbers match] as shown instead of the 3rd model type with adjustment screws.

model3sw · #14 04-08-2019, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ol777gunnerz

Update: found the very rare sight blade for add on sight base, thanks to Ralph, last yr. with his help we determined the correct sight blade and he happened to have one. He generously sold it to me & fits perfectly as shown. Also noted that this was one of the earlier 3rd models serial number wise & has a 1st or 2nd type model target sight base on the barrel catch [all pistol's numbers match] as shown instead of the 3rd model type with adjustment screws.

Now, that's really sweet. Good going ! Ralph comes up with good stuff every once in awhile but this is outstanding. Thanks to Ralph, too. Sal

rct269 · #15 04-08-2019, 08:59 PM

Another thing Ralph came up with (somewhere) is a machinist's drawing of the blade (also the retaining plate and screws) for the original sight on this gun (and 1st/2nd single shots). Blades have been made from this drawing, and fit perfectly.

It's worth noting the sight blade for the larger frame (#3) can be (and has been) made from this drawing---simply alter the dimensions.

A copy of this drawing is available for the asking---a PM with your name and mailing address.

Ralph Tremaine

By the by, there's no need to have screws made---they're available from those ACE Hardware stores stocking gun screws---1 X 72 size. You'll need to turn down the head size and shorten the length, but that's child's play with a lathe (or the poor man's version--a drill press and a file).

mm93 · #16 04-09-2019, 10:23 AM

Just curious if this Pope barrel is left hand or right hand twist?

ol777gunnerz · #17 04-09-2019, 11:50 AM

Both, the 3rd model & my 1st model have left hand twist rifling in the barrels. Both also have the short chamber known by S&W as "Olympic". They are not as short as the S&W Olympic chamber early ones of which I own also, with the thumb killer chamber, both the Pope's do not allow a ctg. to fall in, & must be pushed to fully seat, leaving grooves in the bullet if removed. A photo of my first model is shown, with knurled trigger, trigger stop, & 3rd model type adjustable rear target sight with the side adjustable screws.

29aholic · #18 04-09-2019, 11:59 AM

Well, how's it shoot?

ol777gunnerz · #19 04-09-2019, 03:24 PM

It shoots pretty good considering I'm old with long skinny arms using standard velocity with lead bullets, but I don't shoot it very often.

Vidd · #20 04-09-2019, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ol777gunnerz

Update: found the very rare sight blade for add on sight base, thanks to Ralph, last yr. with his help we determined the correct sight blade and he happened to have one. He generously sold it to me & fits perfectly as shown. Also noted that this was one of the earlier 3rd models serial number wise & has a 1st or 2nd type model target sight base on the barrel catch [all pistol's numbers match] as shown instead of the 3rd model type with adjustment screws.

can I see pic of front site must be tall ? As the rear site on my #3 is mounted on the catch thanks vidd

Vidd · #21 04-09-2019, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mm93

Just curious if this Pope barrel is left hand or right hand twist?

my Pope barrel is left hand twist on my #3 pistol vidd

ol777gunnerz · #22 04-10-2019, 10:17 AM

Front sight, no brand name on it.

mm93 · #23 04-10-2019, 11:19 AM

I'm guessing most of these S&W single shots with Pope "barrels" are likely Pope built and installed liners. Since every one I see still has all the original S&W rollstamps.

ol777gunnerz · #24 04-10-2019, 01:42 PM

Yes they have been relined, look at the crown on the barrel in my previous post, it is flat, Pope believed in zero embellishments, so did not put a rounded crown like the manufacturers.

Vidd · #25 04-10-2019, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ol777gunnerz

Front sight, no brand name on it.

Thanks for the pics thought it would have to be taller as the rear sight looks like it's raised up also myfrontsight is cut a lot like yours but not as tall I guess the changes we're suited for each individual shooter

rct269 · #26 04-13-2019, 03:36 AM

And speaking of Pope barrels, there's a an interesting and informative article on Harry Pope in the June, 2019 issue of Shooting Times.

Ralph Tremaine