Safety Hammerless vs. New Departure....

gmborkovic · #1 03-27-2016, 12:17 PM

... which is acceptable? We all know that lemon term makes Don crawl the wall. Pencil and bull barrel do it for me. Thanks.

Absalom · #2 03-27-2016, 12:38 PM

There is also Hammerless Safety, which S&W used at least for a while....

See attached 1903 catalog.

lamarw · #3 03-27-2016, 12:50 PM

Here are pictures of my .38 Safety Hammerless Fourth Model which has been called a New Departure and also the slang term Lemon Squeezer. It shoots better than it looks and fires .38 S.&W ammunition. It was shipped from S&W on May 2, 1901 to Schoverling, Daly and Gale Co., New York City, NY.

glowe · #4 03-27-2016, 01:45 PM

The 1887 S&W Catalog had a page where they introduced the Hammerless Safety revolver. The page was titled The New Departure. It chronicled a new departure in firearms design, but the new departure was named the Hammerless Safety revolver?? Apparently, the title of the text page stuck.

The 1900, 1903, and 1912 S&W Catalogs listed both the 32 and 38 as Hammerless Safetys. No mention of New Departure. The 1923 catalog listed both 32 and 38 as Safety Hammerless revolvers, reversing the two words. They also called the gun New Departure. Last reference I can find is a 1931 catalog that still listed both calibers as Safety Hammerless, without mention of New Departure.

Our best source for naming models is the Neal Jinks book, which states simply 32 or 38 Safety, (plus model #). The optional name is listed as (Model #) Safety, New Departure. Pretty confusing isn't it?

gmborkovic · #5 03-27-2016, 02:01 PM

So, among all of us all three terms are acceptable. Not confusing to me, just the new guys. Love them Lemon Squeezers.

DWalt · #6 03-27-2016, 02:18 PM

In Jinks' "History of S&W," he states that the S&W factory terminology was always "Safety Hammerless" (.32 and .38) but boxes were labeled "New Departure." He also states that "Lemon Squeezer" is a slang term.

Absalom · #7 03-27-2016, 04:23 PM

Aligning with Gary's years, in taking a quick look through some retail catalog reprints, one could roughly generalize that the New Departure was a pre-1900 thing, the Hammerless Safety was early 1900s (my latest example is Abercrombie & Fitch 1910), and Safety Hammerless thereafter.

One exception was Montgomery Ward 1895, who simply offered "Smith & Wesson Hammerless" revolvers. No safety mentioned. Slightly ironic as they go on to caution customers to beware of the many imitations. Had they mentioned the safety, they would have identified the one thing that clearly distinguished S&W's products from those of its competitors.

gmborkovic · #8 03-27-2016, 04:43 PM

Hey , Thanks for all the replies and comments. I just got dinged, yea a point and a warning for cross posting. Pls. do not reply anymore. Best.

lamarw · #9 03-27-2016, 05:41 PM

The Staff/Moderators on this Forum do a great job. This was a pretty close call since my New Departure was delivered in 1901 which would put it in the 1896-1961 portion of the Forum.

I don't think you were wrong or the Moderator for his/her call.

I certainly think of my 1901 revolver as an antique since it is about 113 to 114 years of age. Maybe the Forum Sector Title 1896 - 1961 should be revised or maybe not if it follows some sort of Curios and Relics description. ???? Maybe, I am wrong and the New Departure is not considered a Hand Ejector. ????

gmborkovic · #10 03-27-2016, 06:05 PM

My first edition of Mr. Jinks History... lists on page 138, the 38 Safety Hammerless was manufactured from 1886/87, to 1940. Am I correct so far? On page 141, Mr Jinks states in his list the 32 Safety Hammerless was manufactured from 1888 to 1937. Am I correct so far? If Im wrong please post and this book goes in the trash bin. Best on Easter Sunday. Mike.

glowe · #11 03-27-2016, 06:51 PM

I wish that the company would have gone ahead and produced a 44 Safety Hammerless, as the 1887 catalog text states. Now that would have been a sight to see.

Dan M · #12 03-27-2016, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmborkovic

My first edition of Mr. Jinks History... lists on page 138, the 38 Safety Hammerless was manufactured from 1886/87, to 1940. Am I correct so far? On page 141, Mr Jinks states in his list the 32 Safety Hammerless was manufactured from 1888 to 1937. Am I correct so far? If Im wrong please post and this book goes in the trash bin. Best on Easter Sunday. Mike.

Mike,

Long before you ever joined the forum the categories were different than they are today. there was a lot of confusion that was caused by going by years of manufacture.

It was decided by the forum at that time to change up the categories and go by the type of gun.

If you go read the title of each forum it will tell you exactly what guns go with that forum. All top-breaks are in the Antique section defined by the forum rules.

Are you special and believe you don't need to follow the rules? It just causes a lot of work for the moderators when we don't follow them.

Dan