I have the opportunity to purchase a collection consisting of a First, Second and Third Model S&W. I have already purchased the Fourth model. There is a Pope Barrel available also. The 1891 has three extra barrels in all calibers but they aren't serial numbered. I am interested in opinions and valuations. Thank you.
1891, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and Pope barrel collection
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Ed Fowler
Member
Wow! Would be glad to help you shoot them.
Looks alot like the late Joe Miller's guns.
Holy cow, what an opportunity. If the condition warrants the price, jump on it. Never see another one like it in a life time. Best
Opinion: RUN----do not walk---and SNATCH these up!!
Valuation: If by valuation, you mean how much should you spend----whatever it takes----doesn't make any difference.
You cannot pay too much for a good gun---you can only pay whatever the price too soon. The remedy for too soon: Do nothing----just sit and wait.
Ralph Tremaine
Valuation: If by valuation, you mean how much should you spend----whatever it takes----doesn't make any difference.
You cannot pay too much for a good gun---you can only pay whatever the price too soon. The remedy for too soon: Do nothing----just sit and wait.
Ralph Tremaine
And that 2nd Model SS?? It may or may not be a 2nd Model-----it's on a 1st Model frame (two pins). If it's numbered within the 2nd series, it's a 2nd. Otherwise, it's a 1st----one of the more interesting 1st's. Actually, it's one of the more interesting either way. All of which is nothing more than an interesting tid-bit----if you're interested in tid-bits.
Ralph Tremaine
Ralph Tremaine
You're not listening! There is no such thing as very pricey! If you get in over your head, and want out, I'll buy the outfit from you---for more than you paid.
Look at it this way: This is a once in a lifetime opportunity-----ONCE. On the other hand, tomorrow you'll have more money than you do today-----------money just keeps on coming.
Ralph Tremaine
Look at it this way: This is a once in a lifetime opportunity-----ONCE. On the other hand, tomorrow you'll have more money than you do today-----------money just keeps on coming.
Ralph Tremaine
SchofieldKid
Member
Very impressive! "There is a Pope barrel available also" Would that be Harry Pope? I am familiar with him and his single shot rifle barrels.
That would be THE Harry Pope----THE MAN HISSELF!!
Ralph Tremaine
Ralph Tremaine
Valuation: The revolver is the best thing in the pile. My almost certain recollection is it's a target (can't see the rear sight in the photo)---AND LETTERS AS SUCH----and all numbers matching----and pretty spiffy---some better than mine. I recall lusting after it years ago----and Joe telling me to stick it in my ear!! I recall offering to trade my 6" (A REAL target gun!) and cash to boot for it. "Stick it in your ear!" The man had a way with words.
As such, it's worth whatever you can get for it---or have to pay for it in this instance. The SCSW stands silent on the amount of a premium for target. The typical target premium is double (double to triple on the big bore HE's---and this is more rare/scarce than those). So----start with SCSW, and do the math.
Ralph Tremaine
As such, it's worth whatever you can get for it---or have to pay for it in this instance. The SCSW stands silent on the amount of a premium for target. The typical target premium is double (double to triple on the big bore HE's---and this is more rare/scarce than those). So----start with SCSW, and do the math.
Ralph Tremaine
It is nearly impossible to accurately evaluate these pieces soley with the pictures and description you've supplied.
There are too many variables to be considered.
This requires a formal appraisal by an experienced, knowledgeable person.
These are desirable pieces for a serious collector.
However nice the multi-barrel set is, it is a "made up" set not an original multi-barrel set. It should be priced by the pistol and the parts not as the factory, multi-barrel set.
IIRC Joe Miller also had a New Model 3 set with assorted barrels that did not match. Another "made up" set. Not that this is bad, just that it does not have a value anywhere near the factory set.
There are too many variables to be considered.
This requires a formal appraisal by an experienced, knowledgeable person.
These are desirable pieces for a serious collector.
However nice the multi-barrel set is, it is a "made up" set not an original multi-barrel set. It should be priced by the pistol and the parts not as the factory, multi-barrel set.
IIRC Joe Miller also had a New Model 3 set with assorted barrels that did not match. Another "made up" set. Not that this is bad, just that it does not have a value anywhere near the factory set.
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What Sal said! If the seller is seemingly passing this off as a legitimate combination set---or pricing it as such, take a hike! It shouldn't take too long before he comes to his senses. The several accessory barrels have very little value. The Pope barrel is a different matter---although I'm under the impression that's on (and numbered to) a gun. Yes? No?
Ralph Tremaine
Ralph Tremaine
I'll take a stab... I'm not a collector of the 1891 single-shots but have always wanted one and watch their prices. Of the first three photos, a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd model...it appears the 1st and 3rd have original serial matching boxes and the second model has a spare barrel but no box? Based upon condition and box/spare barrel you're looking at $1,500-2,000 for each one in my opinion. I think $1,500 is conservative and $2000 is more retail but given their condition they may go higher. I would expect to get a price break for buying them all together in spite of it being a complete collection. I have no clue with regards to the cased multi-barrel set. It appears to include a .22, .32, and .38 barrel... and one Pope barrel? I think I see a pre-war SAT in there too. $4,000-5,000. So $8,500-11,000???? I would think that something in the middle would be reasonable for both parties. Like others have said, where else would you have the opportunity to build/complete a collection at once like this... personal inspection, no shipping/transfers, no sales tax or auction fees??? lots of variables a collector can add in or subtract. Good job for snagging the 4th model though... in my opinion the best purchase and most valuable item available regardless of what you paid.
OBXEJC,
The letter with that set, does it confirm being sold as a set?
I have a good number with extra barrels and letters that way. Most extra barrels do NOT have serial numbers at all. Not saying they are all that way... but I have more un-numbered than numbered extra barrel sets.
Terry Wagner
The letter with that set, does it confirm being sold as a set?
I have a good number with extra barrels and letters that way. Most extra barrels do NOT have serial numbers at all. Not saying they are all that way... but I have more un-numbered than numbered extra barrel sets.
Terry Wagner
I have a few extra barrels, too.
When Jerry Rodgers bought out all the old parts from S&W years back. he had many single shot barrels in the bundle of parts. Jerry made up barrels for many of us collectors.
I ordered 4 barrels in different lengths, calibers and finish, all un-numbered.
Jerry did not make them up, nor did I order them, with the intention of deceiving anyone.
Likely the seller of this set will be offering it with a full disclosure but some people who are not knowledgeable of these sets, may actually think they have the "Mc Coy" ( Like the "Real" McCoy who wasn't a McCoy at all ).
That being said ... it IS pretty.
As long as it is offered with a full disclosure, both the seller and buyer know exactly what it is, at an agreed value, everyone is happy and it's all good, I think.
When Jerry Rodgers bought out all the old parts from S&W years back. he had many single shot barrels in the bundle of parts. Jerry made up barrels for many of us collectors.
I ordered 4 barrels in different lengths, calibers and finish, all un-numbered.
Jerry did not make them up, nor did I order them, with the intention of deceiving anyone.
Likely the seller of this set will be offering it with a full disclosure but some people who are not knowledgeable of these sets, may actually think they have the "Mc Coy" ( Like the "Real" McCoy who wasn't a McCoy at all ).
That being said ... it IS pretty.
As long as it is offered with a full disclosure, both the seller and buyer know exactly what it is, at an agreed value, everyone is happy and it's all good, I think.
ol777gunnerz
Member
What are some of your thoughts on the "POPE" shooting card shown? Gives a date, Sept. 13, 1913, is #4428 the serial number, is 688 the "Pope" barrel number? I am curious as I own two Pope Barreled pistols, a 1st model of 91 S.S. with all matching serial numbers & Pope Barrel #167 which would date according to the scant records known, as being done around 1909. The other is a 3rd Model Perfected S.S. with all matching numbers with Pope barrel #390 estimated to be done in 1914, these dates were given to me by Tom Rowe & match what I found in "Respectfully Yours, H M Pope" book.
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I didn't check the Pope barrel number with the pistol it's being offered with in a package. Joe priced these before he passed and there's no negotiations on the price as they do not have to sell. I buy and sell collections so I would like to find a buying for the these items. They have other items that I am interested in but I need to move these to have access to the other items. I bought the Straight Line and will be listing it on GunBroker Monday night at 10pm. As for the pistol with the extra barrels they are not a set, Joe acquired the pistols in time and I don't know if they are from the ones sold from the S&W collection, they told me he had them before they were released. The box they are in is a silverware box he adapted for the set. All items are lettered.
