Can anyone confirm either the manufacture date or ship date of a 1st model new departure 32 serial 7275X. My rough estimate is later 1896 but I do not have access to the job sheets to confirm either mfg or ship date. This is a standard 1st model New Departure 32 in nickle finish.

Hello ken, yea good guess on the ship without a letter. What are these " job sheets" you make reference to? Just curious. Best.

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Mike 2796
SoFo Bunch member

That serial number makes your gun a 32 Safety, 1st Model. There were 91,417 of this model made from 1888 to 1902. The cut-off date for antique status is at the end of this model.

The BATF allows antique status for: "S&W DA .32 top break hammerless ("lemon squeezer") revolvers (serial # below 91,400)" Your date estimate is as good as you can find without getting a factory letter, but need to remember that the company did not ship in serial number order.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

RE: work sheets, the job sheets that were signed off when a unit was completed in manufacturing and put into inventory. Depending upon the demand, shipment could be the next day or years later. I understand copies of the work sheets were kept and made available to archivists but unsure as to who the recipients were other than Mr Jenks.

Re: model. Yes, I know from the Serial number and model characteristics it is a first model. I collect top breaks and have a number of single & double action S&W top breaks along with Forehands, Hopkins, H&R, etc. My curiosity was if anyone had access to the S&W archived work sheets or shipment lists and could confirm my supposition based on previous ones I own.

I thought I would share a photo of some of my top break collection I have in a display wall case in my reloading room. A few of notice is the Perfected model, a later 2nd model double action with the red Gutta Percha grip, and (in the upper left) a 2nd model Iver 32 mfg ca 1903 that is new in the box. The 1st model I described at the start of this tread is not in this case photo.

I won't say welcome to the forum since you have been around for a while but I will say welcome to posting.

Very nice collection and cool display. As you know we love pictures here and many refer to it as "gun porn".

S&W only kept track of the shipping dates as that is when a gun left inventory and either payment had been made or was expected. When the gun was made was of no interest as it did not reflect income at that point.

Some collectors have been able to secure some of the foremen's factory floor records that do give manufacture dates and serial numbers however, they are not complete and are few and far between. The ATF has accepted the shipping dates from S&W as the manufacture date as obviously the gun had to have been made before it was shipped although many guns have been found to have sat in inventory for as much as 10 years before shipment.

This really only becomes critical when trying to determine either antique or C&R status.

As an FYI, the S&W Historian and founder of the Smith and Wesson Collectors Association is Roy Jinks, not Jenks.

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James Redfield
LM #497

Thanks James for really clarifying this question of work sheets.

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Mike 2796
SoFo Bunch member

Re: Mr Jinks spelling... yes of course my mistake. I was up in the wee hours of morning with insomnia and fuzzy brain syndrome. Mr. Jinks book has been of considerable help over the years in determining a model and any unique features.

Re:the factory sign off work sheets. I was hoping that some of the forum members might be archivists so that they could possibly satisfy my curiosity on this pistol with mfg or ship date because it has some personal interest. Like the Iver I had described in my display case, the 1st model 32 sat in a bureau drawer for many decades never shot. One of the values (of many) in the forum are other collectors who have information not available to most of us and can be a source of tying a firearm to some time long past that can fill in a family history, or, simply provide a "scratch" to a curiosity "itch".

I have reached the age where I am having to look forward to passing some of my collection on to the next generation, and want to pass on any family story that may come with the item. It often seems upon a death we get an item passed down without the "story" to accompany it; it just becomes "grandfathers gun".

We don't seem to realize we'd like the story behind it until they are gone and we wish we had asked more questions. Of course this applies to more than a gun; but other personal things, a ring with an engraving, or a jewelry item to a granddaughter.

I'm gathering the information I have to pass on to my grandchildren or great grandchildren so that it's not just an old pistol but was my grandfather's pistol he bought when a young engineering student at Purdue in the 19th century.

So anyhow, to my thinking the forum has more worth than just identifying a model or feature.

Hello Ken, I can sympathize with you. I have two of my Grandfathers pistols. He was a very successful Bootlegger outside Pittsburgh during the day. Sorry, nothing illustrious like LE or military heroism. Just an immigrant making a living. Sent three kids thru Medical School. Best to you in your quest.

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Mike 2796
SoFo Bunch member

Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass, Ken! I believe Ed Cornett (alias is "opoefc") has some of the foreman's floor logs. You might PM him to see if he can help.

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Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629

I agree with what you are saying. My father sent back a pistol and a shotgun from Germany during WWII, one of which he stated was found tossed in to a river. Unfortunately, I never asked which one so that information is now lost to time. My two girls have not expressed any interest in my collection even though they grew up shooting at my gun club. Oldest has three boys and they also have never really seemed interested as well and my girls live in NJ and CA respectively so keeping the collection and its history in the family seems moot.

I fear that the anti second amendment folks really only need to wait another generation or two and this whole issue may be reduced to a "who cares".

One more point that I did not include in my explanation of the factory floor sheets was that they did matter to the company internally. Since most of these guns were produced under a piece work program, the foreman needed to now how many guns were completed and by whom so compensation could be made to each worker accordingly. My point was that once that was accomplished, the floor sheets had no real bearing on the bottom line so their significance to the company was nil.

Guns being shipped and paid for became the next most important part of the process.

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James Redfield
LM #497