Just a side note. There is strong evidence that these cases were not Gutta Percha and actually made from a substance called "mud". Somewhere I have an article by an authority on this subject and will try to dig it up.

PS: This is from a 2021 thread and posted by first model:

"There were two different thermoplastic cases that were made by Littlefield, Parsons & Co. for Smith & Wesson. Below is a photo of the other box, which obviously has different decorative elements from the molds that Don has. The boxes were otherwise identical.

The thermoplastic material used to make these boxes would have been poured into the molds in a liquid state.

As an aside: collectors often call these "gutta percha" cases, but this isn't really correct. Gutta percha is a natural latex rubber substance which looks very similar to the thermoplastic uses in these cases—but it's not the same. The material used for these cases was a shellac-based substance that was mixed with a very fine sawdust.

Mike"

The name Vern Eklund is also mentioned in the thread and IIRC he was the one that did the study o these cases and the actual product used......

Perhaps a forum search using his name will bring up his information on the subject.

__________________
James Redfield
LM #497

mrcvs wrote: "And, I have seen reference to a rare brown case with regards to the Flags variation. Does it also exist in the Pistol variation?" See post #9 for an example of the brown pistol case.

__________________
Mike Maher #283

Post #9 shows a brown Pistol variation . Maybe the brown variation was only found on the Pistol cases, or was it found on the Flags variation as well? Intentional, or accidental?

I have a brown case that is a cribbage board.

__________________
Don Mundell

I have nothing to add here except I've never run into the OP/twaits before and his avatar is a mug shot of Lucky Luciano and I'm ROTFLMAO!!!!

Well done!!!

__________________
Come and take it!!

Hi There,


I wish I could remember where I read an article on the company
that made those cases. They made cases commercially and sold
cases to other firearm manufacturers (Bacons and Wheelock
pocket pistols have been found cased with the flag box). Their
cases were used for holding games and playing cards too.

The article went on to show the original molds which were still in
existence at that time. I'm not sure if they used injection molding
but the boxes were heated with high pressure steam. I don't
remember whether they used ejector pins to force the box from
the mold or not.


Cheers!
Webb

I suspect the Browning of the case was caused by sun exposure over a long period of time. This exact same condition is seen on many HR antique firearms from many manufacturers at that time.
I’ve even seen where one grip( usually the right side) is brown and the left side is black. Supports that the owner was right handed and the right side of the pistol was exposed to the sun when carried.

These cases could have sat on top of a desk, night stand, mantel, etc and were exposed to morning or evening sun gradually turning Brown over time. The browning of grips also goes all the way through the material. I have a few.

Murph

That’s exactly why I asked this. Is the browning truly an original brown colour, or is it the same brown experienced by some hard rubber and/or gutta percha stocks? My guess it’s the latter, developing over time, but some literature out there seems to suggest it’s uncommon but intentional.

There is so much evidence that supports browning is caused by sun exposure that I personally think you would need to find a period advertisement that offers BROWN as an option color.
Brown grips look really nice but they were not originally brown. They were black. You could say they were originally brown and you’d likely get a following of believers.

Murph

Referring to post #9 photos, the cases were made in brown. Sunlight would not affect the insides or bottom of these cases as shown.

__________________
Mike Maher #283

I don’t think it’s like getting a sun tan. Sort of like baking a cake. I’m not a chef but Somehow the inside of the cake gets cooked too.

Murph

I have a brown No 1 case and have held others.
Mine is well cooked right through, brown on the outside and inside..

I’m going to start a new thread on Brown/Black grips.

Murph

Hi There,


I found a link to the article I mentioned in a previous post.

https://americansocietyofarmscollect...stol-Cases.pdf


Cheers!
Webb

Smith and Wesson never offered Gutta Percha stocks on any weapon. S&W used hard rubber which comes from a different plant.

__________________
S&WHF #946
S&WCA #3824

Yes, correct. Smith & Wesson used hard ribber. I was referring to stocks, in general, by ANY manufacturer that may have browned over time, be they gutta percha, hard rubber, or other.

I am not aware of any stocks for any gun manufacturer being actually made from gutta percha. It's a poor material for about any purpose because it shrinks and cracks so easily. You will find "collectors" calling hard rubber gutta percha because they just don't know the truth.

__________________
S&WHF #946
S&WCA #3824

I'm not sure if I can add anything but I want to say that these Shellac based thermoplastic cases could be dyed to a preferred color such as black or brown as found in these cases. The case material was molded after heating (~325 F) and molded under pressure.

The stocks (grips) were made of hard rubber and poured into molds and allowed to setup or harden.

__________________
Mike Maher #283

Do you have proof as to this statement? It very well may be true, but certainly needs scholarly support.

But it seems hard to believe that not one manufacturer EVER manufactured a revolver with gutta percha stocks, even for a short period of time, perhaps determining they were sub standard and switching to hard rubber or other superior material.

It's pretty hard to prove a negative. Perhaps if you care to find an example that actually is? Major companies like Colt and S&W never did, too much trouble. Maybe some obscure maker did, but that would be uncommon.

__________________
S&WHF #946
S&WCA #3824

I’m nearly 100% certain that an obscure maker did just that. But there’s no way to know for sure that a researcher didn’t misdescribe a set of stocks as being gutta percha when they weren’t.

This article discusses gutta percha grips by various makers. And so it’s superfluous to say none were ever made. Granted, they are limited in number, but do exist.

https://americansocietyofarmscollect...ynthetics-.pdf

The Remington cane guns are always described as Gutta Percha ??