38 Safety Hammerless with a 6 Inch Barrel

[Mikebiker]

It been quite a while since I last visited but I just came by this one and thought it may be worth posting. Just how rare are these guns. This one appears to be a transitional 4th to 5th Model built around 1907. The frame, cylinder, and barrel latch all have matching numbers. The gun rates around 95 to 98 percent condition. The grips may not have been original to the gun. They are not numbered. They do however look good on it. What are the 6 inch versions worth?

[murphydog]

It's a nice example of a scarce length, appears lightly fired.

Factory MOP stocks of that era were supposed to be identifiable by having stock medallions, but this one may have missed that time window for this (1910 - 1920); a letter of authenticity would tell.

One of the knowledgeable antique collectors will be along shortly with a value estimate, but I would guess somewhere between 2-3X of a common barrel length - $800-1000?

[mrcvs]

Here is a thread I created about my .38 Safety Hammerless with a 6" barrel:

.38 Safety Hammerless Third Model with 6" barrel

[glowe]

Very nice 38 Safety. That gun was less than 500 below the cut-off between the 4th Model and the 5th Model. Since your front sight is pinned that would indicate a 4th Model, but the single address started with the 5th Model, but but Smith & Wesson was stamped on the left side of the barrel again indicating a 5th Model. Definitely a transition gun that would have been manufactured in 1907, plus shipped probably that year or the next. I my mind, it is almost certain that that gun did not leave the factory with those MOP stocks, looking at the left side fit to the frame issue. Plus, after the factory adopted gold medallions around 1900 for MOP stocks, they were very religious about using them on all their pearl stocks, including placing a label on the bottom inside of the box to explain the superior quality of factory pearl stocks. They also devoted a full page in their period catalogs with the same information as the box label. The gold medallion lasted through the teens on ivory and MOP stocks.

Now you need a 32 Safety 6" (and also 32 and 38 Double Action revolvers as well!!

[Hunter Keith]

Not nearly as nice as yours. serial # is 3,000 less than yours. Pic is not clear. Shoots, and functions well. Pinned front sight, and single line bbl address.

[Mikebiker]

Is the 800 to 1000 estimate a good one? I bought as part of a package deal and I am curious to see how I made out.

[mrcvs]

Originally Posted by Mikebiker

Is the 800 to 1000 estimate a good one? I bought as part of a package deal and I am curious to see how I made out.

Yes, I think so.

[glowe]

I think it might technically be worth quite a bit, but problem is finding a buyer to pay that much. I paid a third of that estimate for each of the two 32s I posted above two or three years ago.

Unfortunately, the collector market for these models is still very depressed. They remain one of the best buys out there for S&W antique revolver collectibles. Safety revolvers are low value, there were over a quarter million made, and the number of dedicated collectors is small. I think Supica/Nahas has it right even in today's market. A 38, 4th or 5th Model Safety is listed at: Fine - $275; Excellent - $400. Also, the book states a slight premium for 6".

I reality, that gun should sell for maybe $500 - $700 max.

[mrcvs]

Originally Posted by glowe

I think it might technically be worth quite a bit, but problem is finding a buyer to pay that much....In reality, that gun should sell for maybe $500 - $700 max.

I don't know. Perhaps you are correct.

But it's an uncommon barrel length in this model and it has nice balance with a 6" barrel length. It would be worth a bit more if it was an antique like mine is.

Then again, when numbers are tossed around as to valuation, it's usually just a "guess" as to what others might pay for it, the hypothesizer removed from the equation. In this case, I can add myself to the equation. That is, would I pay $500 for this one? Definitely! What about $700? Probably, but I would still like to get it for $500 or $600. My response confirming the OPs question as to if it's worth $800 to $1000 is such that if I'm willing to pay about 75% of $800, surely someone out there would toss in a few hundred bucks more just to have it.

And I'm usually accused of tossing out low ball estimates, but usually on another forum. It's a forum devoted to another revolver manufacturer prominent in the 19th Century. I am not at liberty to divulge this manufacturer because it's a 4 letter word beginning with C and ending in t and just mentioning such an obscene word could get me kicked off the forum for a few lifetimes.

[Mr. Wonderful]

I recently picked up this beauty, serial Number 1504XX. Roy Jinks says it shipped in December 1901.

As mentioned by other folks in this thread, the fit of those pearl stocks in the original posting seem to be not original. The fit just doesn't look as expected.

Anyway, it's still a handsome piece that I would be proud to have.

Best wishes everyone!

Roger AKA Mr. Wonderful

[first-model]

I think $500 to $700 is optimistic for this gun. With original (and properly fitted) stocks, maybe ... but as it sits, I think it's more in the $400 range.

But to a really enthusiastic buyer that wants the gun, the higher estimate is possible.

Mike

[BMur]

I think folks are evaluating this gun based on what they experience locally? Where they live?

These prices posted sure aren't Nation wide prices. On the west coast right now due to Covid the shows are once again closed. Two months ago you couldn't get this gun for less than $750 minimum. That's low ball,

Now that the shows are closed again I don't honestly know how to evaluate this gun. Only to say that it's probably not the time to sell.


Murph

[first-model]

Originally Posted by BMur

These prices posted sure aren't Nation wide prices. On the west coast right now due to Covid the shows are once again closed. Two months ago you couldn't get this gun for less than $750 minimum. That's low ball,

During the pandemic I haven't seen older / antique guns like this fetching much more than they did pre-pandemic. Modern guns are another story, but I don't see Joe Q. Public buying this gun to keep in his nightstand.

And I generally don't use the prices at gun shows as a barometer for the markets. Over the past 5 or 10 years the shows seem to have swung much more towards modern (made in the last 20 years) guns. Twenty years ago I could buy all sorts of antiques and curious at the gun shows; now I'm doing well to see more than a handful.

(I'm not talking about antique specific shows like Tulsa or Vegas, mind you ... I'm talking about garden-variety local gun shows)

Sites like GunBroker are probably a better indication of how these guns are doing. There, though, one must be careful to look at closed auctions that actually sold, since a lot of people list stuff (that never sells) at ridiculously overinflated prices.

Most of the local shops around here won't touch a top break Smith & Wesson unless they can get it for *very* low money. It's a buyer's market for these right now, which means that the patient collector that scoops up the deals will probably make money in the long run.

Mike

[BMur]

In California 1907 manufacture is a modern gun. I think it's a modern gun/Curio anywhere in the U.S.A. They do have Curio status but still requires FFL transfer. So this gun definitely would be used as a home defense/ range shooter. It's a smokeless shooter that's for sure.

Even Bass Pro shops is back ordered on guns. Mainly pistols. So it's a sellers market. So prices are definitely inflated. At least here they are.

That's why I mentioned that you can't judge value based on your neighborhood...You can sell a gun out of state legally. FFL to FFL. I've had my FFL receive guns for me that were sold from an FFL out of State due to very low prices.

Rarely though due to the cost of out of state transfer. It's all about basic math.

So: $300 price in AL. and $750 in California equals:

$300 sale price, $20 shipping to FFL, $150 for out of state transfer, $30 for California state tax equals: $500 total cost from AL. to CA.

If I bought the same gun here? $750 price, $75 tax, $90 transfer/background fee equals: $ 900+ from California

So, it's all about the math.


Murph

[Wiregrassguy]

If I were you, I'd move to Alabama...jes sayin'. Oops! I'm already here.