Identify S&W Perfected Modeler

cfigueroa · #1 01-02-2021, 02:23 PM

Hello, they gave me an S&W revolver I think it is a .38 short cal Perfected modeler, it only has a number and I would like to identify it and know its specifications, it is somewhat neglected and I would like to put it in better condition, I attach some photos

Wiregrassguy · #2 01-02-2021, 02:32 PM

Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass!

Yes, that is an early Perfected model chambered for .38 S&W. Likely shipped in 1909. Most of these Perfected guns were exported. What country are you in? It needs a lot of cleaning and, perhaps, a re-plating.

nicky4968 · #3 01-02-2021, 02:35 PM

Bienvenidos

cfigueroa · #4 01-02-2021, 03:14 PM

Hi, I'm from El Salvador and yes it is in some bad condition, I want to know all about and if is posible to obtain a new grips, and a new blue finished

cfigueroa · #5 01-02-2021, 03:23 PM

Another pictures about, the serial number is 3475, is possible to identify?

Camster · #6 01-02-2021, 03:43 PM

This is a gun best left as is.

Wiregrassguy · #7 01-02-2021, 04:12 PM

Quote:

el número de serie es 3475, *se puede identificar?

The identification is that it is a .38 Double Action Perfected Model from 1909. (La identificación es que se trata de un modelo perfeccionado de doble acción .38 de 1909.) It may be possible to put new grips on it but someone experienced with this model will have to identify what frame size grips might replace the extension grips that are on it now. You mention you want to blue the gun but it appears to be nickel plated to me. Do you want to change the finish?

cfigueroa · #8 01-02-2021, 04:20 PM

Somebody think it is better to leave it as it is, I suppose it is to preserve its value, which I would like to know, but if that does not change anything, I will know opinions about how it will be better, leave it like this, recover the nickel plated or with a blue finish??

Wiregrassguy · #9 01-02-2021, 04:36 PM

In my opinion, the revolver has very little value. It appears to have been refinished before in nickel which removes all collector value. It is very degraded and would require a lot of polishing to remove the nickel plate and pitting I see. In the US, it would cost more to plate or blue it than it is worth. I agree with Camster that it is best cleaned up and left in the current condition. If the action is good, it would be fun to shoot it occasionally.

glowe · #10 01-02-2021, 06:16 PM

Welcome, actually the only heavy rust seems to be the butt-frame. Most nickel looks to be intact on the rest of the gun. I would not, however do anything more than clean it up, get rid of any active rust, properly clean and lubricate the mechanism and get some ammo to shoot, 38 S&W or 38 Corto. The stocks can easily be found on reproduction grip websites like vintagegungrips.com. The I frame 32 Long S&W was the basis of building this revolver. The Model 1903 frame and mechanism was used to design this last top-break S&W made. Look for I frame black hard rubber diamond grips.

As for the particulars of this model, you might find this Commentary interesting. South America was a major export market for the 38 Perfected model. The document is aimed at separating late examples from most of the earlier production, since in 1915, the Perfected revolver got a hammer block safety just as all other frame sizes of Smith & Wesson.

STCM(SW) · #11 01-02-2021, 06:34 PM

Should have looked like mine.....

cfigueroa · #12 01-02-2021, 06:35 PM

Thank you all for your comments, yes I think it is best to leave it as it is, I would like to be able to specify its year of manufacture based on the serial number it has, if someone knows I will appreciate it too, greetings.

murphydog · #13 01-02-2021, 06:46 PM

I recall reading the the S & W factory was very secretive about .38 Perfected production numbers, by shipping higher numbered guns earlier to make their competitors think it was more successful in sales than it was. So the only way to be certain of its birth year (when it was shipped or sold) is a letter of authenticity:

http://www.swhistoricalfoundation.com/swhf_letter.pdf

Wiregrassguy · #14 01-02-2021, 06:53 PM

Manufacture year.

glowe · #15 01-02-2021, 09:18 PM

3946 shipped in 1909 which was the first year of production. Looking at the shipping dates for the 38 Perfected, they seem to have gone out the door in near perfect serial number order. There are holes in the data I have access to, but it seems there were no late guns shipped early or no early guns shipped late. Heavy sales, maybe 40,000 guns, occurred in 1912 and 1913, perhaps correlates with the high number of orders from South America and Europe.

# . . . . Ship Year

1 . . . . . . 1909
5000. . . . 1911
10,000 . . 1912
20,000 . . 1913
30,000 . . 1913
40,000 . . 1912
50,000 . . 1914
59,000 . . 1920

cfigueroa · #16 01-02-2021, 10:42 PM

Thank you very much everyone for your answers, one more question, I have some .38 short ammunition marked like this: .38 SW, .38 spl and .38 spl +P+ the friend who gave me the weapon tell me that he has used any of those ammunition , but I have my doubts, so I ask you which of them can I use with this weapon? to the naked eye they all look the same.

Thanks again

Wiregrassguy · #17 01-02-2021, 10:46 PM

Only .38 S&W. Anything else should not fully fit into the cylinder chamber.

Bullseye 2620 · #18 01-02-2021, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cfigueroa

Thank you very much everyone for your answers, one more question, I have some .38 short ammunition marked like this: .38 SW, .38 spl and .38 spl +P+ the friend who gave me the weapon tell me that he has used any of those ammunition , but I have my doubts, so I ask you which of them can I use with this weapon? to the naked eye they all look the same.

Thanks again

DO NOT TRY TO USE THE .38 SPECIAL OR.38 SPECIAL+P+.

I would have the gun inspected by a competent gunsmith before I fired ANY ammunition from it.

glowe · #19 01-03-2021, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cfigueroa

. . .38 SW, .38 spl and .38 spl +P+

I think what was meant would have been "38 S&W Special" which is NOT what you want since it will not fit in the chamber. This and +P variety is only meant for solid frame Hand Ejector revolvers. As I stated above, you must find 38 S&W or 38 Corto (European version). I also seen the same caliber European boxes labeled 38 Short Colt, but do not believe they are marketed that way any more.

cfigueroa · #20 01-04-2021, 10:00 PM

The previous owner gave me some cartridges, he says he fired some of them but I am suspicious because they all seem reloaded although the caps are marked as indicated, some say .38 SW, others .38 Spl, another more .38 + p + and one which only says WCC 1986, to the naked eye they all look almost the same, I measured them with a caliper and they all have the same value (37mm) on the bullet, they all fit well in the cylinder, I put a couple of photos

Peak53 · #21 01-04-2021, 10:31 PM

As noted above, the gun was designed to shoot .38 SW - only. It can not safely shoot .38 SW Special or +P+. Also, it is an unsafe practice to shoot anyone else's handloads. You don't know what is in them unless you load them yourself. If the .38 Special cartridges fit in the chambers, it may have been tampered with. Please have it checked out by a competent gunsmith.

desi2358 · #22 01-05-2021, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cfigueroa

The previous owner gave me some cartridges, he says he fired some of them but I am suspicious because they all seem reloaded although the caps are marked as indicated, some say .38 SW, others .38 Spl, another more .38 + p + and one which only says WCC 1986, to the naked eye they all look almost the same, I measured them with a caliper and they all have the same value (37mm) on the bullet, they all fit well in the cylinder, I put a couple of photos

Looking at your pictures of the ammo in question it would appear that the 38 special cases were shortened to the length of the 38 S&W round which the revolver was made for. It would be a handloader modification to create ammo that would fit in the cylinder of your revolver. As another poster commented I would be very leery of shooting someone else's reloads. No way to be sure what charge was used or how accurate the loading was.

glowe · #23 01-05-2021, 12:06 PM

Unload the 38 SP cases and toss the powder and bullets. They have been loaded with .357" bullets and the 38 S&W takes a .361" bullet. If one reloads carefully, you can put a 38 S&W bullet into a 38 SP case that has been shortened. The bullet will budge the case, but function properly. If you are going to reload this caliber it is still best to find some 38 S&W brass, buy .361" - 145 grain lead bullets.

As stated above, do not shoot reloads that you did not build yourself.

cfigueroa · #24 01-08-2021, 11:50 PM

Again thanks to all of you for such good advice, without a doubt I will follow you to the letter, I already contacted weapons stores in my country and although a little expensive but they have original .38 SW ammunition, so I discard the all this defective ammunition, thaks again.

J. R. WEEMS · #25 01-09-2021, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glowe

I think what was meant would have been "38 S&W Special" which is NOT what you want since it will not fit in the chamber. This and +P variety is only meant for solid frame Hand Ejector revolvers. As I stated above, you must find 38 S&W or 38 Corto (European version). I also seen the same caliber European boxes labeled 38 Short Colt, but do not believe they are marketed that way any more.

PPU makes ammo for these, if you cand find some. I load for all mine.