.32 New Departure First Model (Safety Hammerless) with mustard box
Sometimes in the pursuit of the rare and esoteric, one overlooks common examples with condition in the original box, mustard coloured, green label (specific for blued revolvers), ANTIQUE status, shipped April 1892. The box isn’t rare, the condition is not uncommon either, as most were kept in bedside nightstands, ready to use abruptly in an event which likely never occurred.
Nonetheless, as I did not have an example of one of these with condition, I’m pleased to add this one to my collection.
Those New Departure top breaks look cool in higher conditions.
You wonder how they survived in that condition for over 100
years. I really like the German silver front sights.
As to the mustard box, any idea why they textured the top
part so it looks like " chicken skin" ? I know they textured
poison bottles of that era so you know it's poison if you grab
the bottle in the dark out of the medicine cabinet.
Mine was produced somewhat later, in 1921. I came across it at a gun show, and even though I did not collect these, I couldn't resist it because of the condition, which was immaculate. Great little guns - gotta love the lemon squeezers!
Here's a quick and dirty photo of the same gun in nickel. It came with box and receipt from Iver Johnson Sporting Goods Co. in Boston. The price for "revolver, holster, and shells" was $34.45. Roy dates shipment to June 1892.
Sometimes in the pursuit of the rare and esoteric, one overlooks common examples with condition in the original box, mustard coloured, green label (specific for blued revolvers), ANTIQUE status, shipped April 1892. The box isn’t rare, the condition is not uncommon either, as most were kept in bedside nightstands, ready to use abruptly in an event which likely never occurred.
Nonetheless, as I did not have an example of one of these with condition, I’m pleased to add this one to my collection.
With a 3 inch barrel. Also known as a “Lemon squeezer” revolver.
That was my general assessment as well. I like the revolver but the high condition box even better. The serial number of this revolver, 40152, is penciled in on the bottom of this box.
The price for "revolver, holster, and shells" was $34.45. Roy dates shipment to June 1892.
The amazing thing about this statement is that $34.45 got you the aforementioned in 1892. Fast forward 43 years and in 1935 you could get a Registered Magnum if you were a LEO or were a member of an organization such as the NRA for $39. Inflation seems awfully low or even negative over that time frame. Maybe it had something to do with the Great Depression, but imagine waking up this morning and purchasing any firearm you wanted at 1978 prices.
Very nice revolver and box. I was all set to give you a like until I read THE TWO WORDS!! I have looked for a very long time to find that factory document that names that model a Xxxxx xxxxxxxx with no success so far. Hope Don M does not get wind of your post.
32 Safety revolvers sold for $13.00 in early 1900s S&W price lists and for $26.75 by 1931. Ammunition was $12 per 1000 in 1900, meaning a box of 50 would cost $0.60. A holster could be bought for under $0.50 and a ammo belt was $0.30 at the turn of the century. Now, if you add inflation to the equation, that total cost of a 32 Safety rig would now cost almost $500!
My 1902 early 2nd Model and box shows the actual price written on the bottom of the box. At that time, nickel guns had a white label and blued guns had green labels. That pebbled box was probably used from the mid-1880s to some time before 1905. I sold the gun and box for $400 this year, indicating that nice collections of these old top-breaks are still available at affordable prices.
Yes, but unfortunately, the little 32 S&W revolver never gets enough respect. Another case in point was a unusual long-barrel 32 DA that I picked up on GB for $210 a couple years ago.
Hello Gary, was this model offered with finely checked grips with no medallion but a diamond around the screw at a later date?
I got a nice set, no screw on a box of parts. Mike
Lets see, if you are referring to the 32 Safety, Roy's book makes no mention of walnut stocks available, only the black hard rubber ones. They were all molded and had the logo in the top round, plus were checked and also had diamonds. The late 38 Safety revolvers, however, were offered in both hard rubber and walnut. The 5th Model was manufactured from 1907 to 1940, so during the 1920s they would have been offered with checked walnut and diamond centers without any medallions, but were the size of I frame stocks.
If it was the 32 DA you were asking about, Roy states that they were only offered in black plastic. Both models were offered with MOP and Ivory as well, but seldom ordered that way. Could a special order for either model have filled for walnut stocks? I would assume so - money talks, but I have never seen them with wood for either the 32 Safety or 32 DA.
OP, cool gun and box, and much less common in blue than nickel in my observations. Enjoy!
It was the box, condition (both of the revolver & the box), the fact that this is THE box and not just A box, the rarity of blued vs nickel, and ANTIQUE status that made me really want this one. A home run when it comes to the Safety Hammerless model.
It will be likely a rather dull factory letter, but I recently ordered it, nonetheless.
I thought I would take some time to discuss THE box as it is very likely THE box in which this revolver shipped and not just A box. The reason why I am taking time to do this is because, although a very nice box, it’s of relative low value compared to other boxes for other makes and models, and so, to the best of my knowledge, there’s a disincentive to fake these—yet. I am also presenting some knowledge gleaned from another forum in which the OP presented a box for a Colt Single Action Army revolver that he purchased for $20 in relatively poor condition and I thought it to be a poorly stored, perhaps intentionally to artificially age, reproduction. It turns out it was not.
Presumably, this box is a product of C C Taylor & Co of 17 Oak Street in Springfield.
Presumably THE box, as the serial number of this revolver is written in pencil on the bottom of the box, but this can be easily have been applied at a later date, simply to match the revolver within. This revolver shipped in April 1892, so this box is likely at least 129 years old.
Photographs to follow this post, but here are some observations that one might want to consider when determining if a box is period or not.
The label, applied to the RIGHT side of the box, is not perfect. There are tears and abrasions to the label, especially its base, which makes sense as this is where fingers would have been most likely to pick it up and digits would have been placed under the box, pulling upwards. Also, the glued portion of the box on the underside of the box on this right side is pulled away. Details likely to escape that of one producing a replica.
It’s not at all surprising that the most extensive wear is confined to the right side of the box where the label is, for two reasons. First, most folks are right handed and would naturally reach for the right side of the box. Secondly, the label draws attention to an otherwise nondescript box and, to an individual who is not concerned with historical preservation, this might be where they are most likely to reach.
The front lip of the box is abraded from repeated contact with the trigger guard when the revolver was repeatedly replaced in the box. Interesting, especially in that the condition of this revolver and its intended purpose strongly suggest it did very little but sit in this box for the last 129 years.
The left side of the inside of the box demonstrates having been repeatedly nudged by the muzzle of the revolver.
The paper has been aged over time. This look can be faked, but not as easily faked is the fine surface debris. Sometimes, as I learned from Lee Jarrett (handejector) in another thread that discussed the Colt box, it’s even the faeces of paper digesting insects.
The label inside the box contains a scuff.
The stippling of the box under the paper applied to the underside of the box exhibits soiling contained to the high points of the stippling, where it would be in contact with a flat surface beneath. Also, wear to the paper applied to the underside of the box on the right side, again where a right handed person might be most likely to grasp the box.
I am by no means an expert when it comes to these boxes, so additional observations, comments, or critiques are welcome!
I'm sorry, but for me fake boxes are not hard to discern and that is absolutely NOT a fake box. Having resurrected gun boxes from collapsed ones missing sides, taped up, etc., I have been able to see many to make observations. Mostly done for gun collectors who have the original box and gun, but the box has been reduced to a pile of rubble. Their choice is to either toss the box or get it put back into a condition that will last for future caretakers of the set. Hammer guns have one distinct feature that is almost impossible to duplicate and that is the decades of wear on the top inside liner of every box that was used to store guns. From taking the gun in and out, or carrying the gun in the gun box will leave wear features that only come with repetition and use. Some will only show slight dents and/or dark marks, to broken pasteboard liner from rough use. Boxes that are worn with use are almost impossible to fake. For hammerless guns, the wear of the muzzle is usually pronounced, not rubbed from a hammer, but dents pushed into the pasteboard. Overall, I think worn boxes are easy to identify. Decades of honest wear cannot be duplicated, but care and inspection will make is easy to find any out there with faked age and condition.
Boxes in fine to as new condition are the only ones that are faked in my opinion. I have a clamshell box for a 22/32 HFT that has never held a gun, but since it came from Roy Jinks, I can be certain it is original.
Lastly, I have been looking for that S&W fake box and have yet to find a single one. There are cases of where boxes have received new labels, perhaps to replace destroyed or missing ones, but also maybe to change the model of a gun to fit in the box. Mostly done on blue boxes, since blank labels are readily available on ebay and other online sites. I have also worked on several Colt boxes and it seems to me that they were all legit. There are credible reports from the 1990s where some Colt fakes were likely imported into the US. It is less likely that the report of US boxes being built due to the time it takes to make them. Those that I have heard about were in "as new" condition. How many is unknown.
Bottom line is that careful inspection of any used gun box will tell you whether it is original or fake. As new condition boxes are a problem and knowing where the box came from is a key to determining if you are buying an original or not. Those empty pristine gun boxes on ebay that look too good to be true, for me, just might be . . .
Couple examples of repaired boxes in the pdf, and Roy's 22/32 box that, if I found it on ebay without documentation, I might pass on.
Most all blue, black, and grey boxes from the late 1950s up to the early 1980s had metal corners. The K frame blue boxes had 4 hole corners, while the N frames had 5 hole corners. Most boxes post-1933 had metal corners, including the red picture boxes, used with the K22 Outdoorsman's, and blue 357 Magnum boxes from 1933 to 1941. Also of note are the gold boxes used metal corners from 1946 to 1965.
To clarify, I am not aware of any faked Smith & Wesson boxes out there, but I created my post now in the event that, in the future, should they be created, these are things to look for when assessing original vs later reproduction. If the monetary reward exceeds the cost of production significantly, then it’s inevitable that a fake would be attempted, provided it could pass for original.
The Colt box that caused me to create that post tricked me in that I thought it was a new reproduction that had been thrown in a damp basement for a year and the result was that it made the box look much older than it was. I noted, conveniently, the damage to the label was confined, conveniently, to the non graphic parts of the label, leaving the revolver graphic mostly unscathed. As it turns out, the ink used to create the revolver and type part of the graphic may have had preservative properties relative to the ink used for background shading. Some elements used to create pigments are more likely to be resistant than others, due to being toxic to microorganisms, insects, etc., or more resistant to degradation. IIRC, I couldn’t prove this definitively relative to the Colt box, after further research, but my findings were highly supportive of such a hypothesis.
.32 New Departure First Model (Safety Hammerless) with mustard box
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