Number of original 2nd Model American 44 Russian Commercial

Win38-55 · #1 03-16-2009, 11:50 AM

I've got Charlie Pate's book and it is a wealth of information, but I just can't figure out exactly how many original S&W 2nd Model American Commercial Russian sixguns were produced. I seem to recall it was around 2,600 but I don't want to go on my faulty memory and the detailed numbers that Mr. Pate supplies have me a bit confused. Does anyone know the total production for the Commercial Version? (Just to make sure everyone knows what kind of six gun I'm talking about, here's a photo) .....

Win38-55 · #2 03-16-2009, 11:50 AM

I've got Charlie Pate's book and it is a wealth of information, but I just can't figure out exactly how many original S&W 2nd Model American Commercial Russian sixguns were produced. I seem to recall it was around 2,600 but I don't want to go on my faulty memory and the detailed numbers that Mr. Pate supplies have me a bit confused. Does anyone know the total production for the Commercial Version? (Just to make sure everyone knows what kind of six gun I'm talking about, here's a photo) .....

opoefc · #3 03-16-2009, 05:32 PM

I'm not sure of the number, off hand, however if you are talking about the 2nd Model Americans chambered in caliber .44S&W Russian, I think it's got to be more than 2600 guns.

Win38-55 · #4 03-16-2009, 06:46 PM

Perhaps what I should do is to take another look at Mr. Pate's numbers and post what I think are they are for the 2nd Model American Commercial Russian type. That may be the best way to try to clear up my uncertainty.

opoefc · #5 03-16-2009, 11:15 PM

Kirk, I'm a little confused by the lable "2nd Model American Commercial Russian type" All 2nd model Americans are commercial guns. That's assuming "commercial" means a non-military gun, right? Except for a few chambered for .44 Henry Rimfire or .44 S&W American centerfire, the bulk of the 20,700+ manufactured are in caliber .44 S&W Russian.

Win38-55 · #6 03-17-2009, 07:44 AM

Ed, I'm down in NY State right now, but heading home today. I'll comb through Mr. Pate's book and see what he says. My six gun, if I recall correctly, includes the words 'Commercial Russian' in the address stamp on the top of the rib. As I recall, the 'Commercial Russian' 2nd Model American was distinct from those rejected by the Russian military as I recall. Those did not have 'Commercial Russian' included in the address stamp on the top rib. However, I'm going from memory right now and will refresh it with Mr. Pate's book when I get back home.

opoefc · #7 03-17-2009, 10:02 AM

Kirk, I think you will find that the top rib says "Russian Model", not "commercial Russian." Ed.

Win38-55 · #8 03-17-2009, 12:45 PM

I'm sure you are right, Ed. You know a lot more about these old guns than I, and my memory has a proven track record of being forgetful.

Win38-55 · #9 03-18-2009, 07:41 PM

I'm finally back home and have Charles Pate's tome Smith & Wesson American Model open in front of me and I'm trying to figure out the answer to my question. If I figure this correctly, the chart on page 295 has the info summarized by year and by type (44 American, rimfire, OOM Commercial 'Russian Model' and the Cyrillic OOM).

According to that chart, if I read this correctly, the total number of 2nd Model American 'Russian Model' shipped by year were ...

1871 .. 2
1872 .. 2,494
1873 .. 2,738
1874 .. 606
1875 .. 14

The total shipped was 5,854 I suppose this would be the answer to my initial question.

For interest sake, my 2nd Model American 'Russian Model' (marked on the address line) pictured in my initial post, is serial number 26,382 and was shipped November 29, 1873 to the major distributor M.W. Robinson.

For comparison, the same chart indicates that the total shipped of other types, excluding the military contract guns, between 1870 and 1875 were ....

44 American .. 23,615
rimfire (mostly 44 Henry) ...... 3,707
cyrillic ..... 20,036

Boge · #10 03-18-2009, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Win38-55:
Perhaps what I should do is to take another look at Mr. Pate's numbers and post what I think are they are for the 2nd Model American Commercial Russian type. That may be the best way to try to clear up my uncertainty.

Good post. Gentlemen, don't forget as well that there were a few "overlap" 1st Model Americans in .44 Russian as well. By 1st Model I mean smaller trigger boss. I had a buddy who haggled with a man off the street at the Tulsa Gun Show last year and this man had one but chickened out on selling it. They are very rare.

Win38-55 · #11 03-19-2009, 07:22 AM

Boge, the chart includes both 1st and 2nd Model Americans and actually begins in 1870 with the shipment of 432 1st Model Americans in 44 American and 10 1st Model Americans in 44 Henry. The first 'OOM' Russians ship in 1871 (only 2 to M.W. Robinson distributor).

Looking at this chart, the rarest major type was the 44 Henry caliber, followed by the 'Russian Model', then the Cyrillic, with the 44 American caliber being the most common.