EARLY 38 “SMOKELESS EXPRESS” Hollow point circa 1895

BMur · #1 04-25-2024, 03:14 PM

I’m still working on “EXPRESS” research. That is the historically correct term for early hollow points during the Black Powder Era.

The transition to smokeless powder took over 15 years but during that transition there were several rounds that came and went quickly so they are hard to find and authenticate.

The photo’d smokeless EXPRESS (hollow point) round was actually for the Topbreak 38 Smith & Wesson revolver. Introduced in 1895 it has several state of the art characteristics of a much later produced hollow point.

The primary feature is the wedge shaped core. That was most definitely an improvement to the tubular core typical of the black powder EXPRESS round.

This amazing early round was discontinued almost right after introduction. It disappeared from my later catalogs and did not reappear until 1910.

This simply proves that the EXPRESS ROUND WAS USED in the top breaks during the early era. Which opens the door basically to all early revolvers.

The simple reason these rounds didn’t last is due to the smokeless problem the industry was facing during that time. It didn’t settle down until about 1907.

I’m absolutely sure though that many EXPRESS ROUNDS were in fact shot from these old top breaks! This early listing basically solidifies that position.

Murph

BMur · #2 04-26-2024, 01:30 PM

Here is what the typical EXPRESS ROUNDS looked like from approximately 1872-1910.

Tubular cores. So a wedged core in 1895 really is unprecedented.

Also the extremely rare tool to manufacture an Express bullet for ANY CALIBER! As listed in Ideal catalogs. They were special order tools but clearly available for purchase.

Murph

Frieda's Boss · #3 04-30-2024, 04:33 PM

Very cool, thanks for posting!

BMur · #4 04-30-2024, 10:04 PM

Thanks Frieda,

This is actually the earliest commercially sold Pistol hollow point round that I am aware of. Listed as a Winchester.

So as of right now 1895 is the first year. I haven’t yet found a commercially sold black powder “Express” pistol round but I’m still looking.

I’m also trying to determine when the very first “Express” reloading tools were commercially available. I suspect the very early 1880’s but I can’t prove that yet. I know for sure that Winchester made Express tools in the early 1880’s but I don’t have a solid listing yet.

Winchester and Ideal seem to have been the first to introduce the Express reloading tools. However, It may have actually been Marlin Firearms Co.

Once the boxer primer became the standard in 1876, reloading tools flooded the market.

Murph

Frieda's Boss · #5 05-01-2024, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMur

Thanks Frieda,

This is actually the earliest commercially sold Pistol hollow point round that I am aware of. Listed as a Winchester.

So as of right now 1895 is the first year. I haven’t yet found a commercially sold black powder “Express” pistol round but I’m still looking.

I’m also trying to determine when the very first “Express” reloading tools were commercially available. I suspect the very early 1880’s but I can’t prove that yet. I know for sure that Winchester made Express tools in the early 1880’s but I don’t have a solid listing yet.

Winchester and Ideal seem to have been the first to introduce the Express reloading tools. However, It may have actually been Marlin Firearms Co.

Once the boxer primer became the standard in 1876, reloading tools flooded the market.

Murph

I had no idea hollow point ammo went back that far, and definitely had never heard the term "express" round.

Ameshawki · #6 05-01-2024, 04:38 PM

Interesting. Wonder how good expansion was. I'm thinking not great.

wlw-19958 · #7 05-01-2024, 04:49 PM

Hi There,

Oh yes. Expanding bullets go back quite a ways. It was considered
cruel to use them in warfare and this lead to the Hague Treaty of
1899. In particular, their condemnation extended to the British
Army and their use of the ammunition manufactured in Dum-Dum, India.

Cheers,
Webb

BMur · #8 05-01-2024, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ameshawki

Interesting. Wonder how good expansion was. I'm thinking not great.

I appreciate the interest guys. I was thinking the interest level was low on this subject. It really is enlightening research.

Actually , it’s clearly documented that the early EXPRESS pure lead bullets performed extremely well. Recorded as early as 1876.
I have read and documented several what they use to call testimonials that are now called “feedback”? Customers describing in depth the hunting results using the EXPRESS BULLETS. Pretty amazing stuff.

I had a breakthrough with my research late last night. It seems Winchester was the origin of the EXPRESS ROUND. I can now trace their EXPRESS tools back to circa 1880. Remember that Winchester replaced this early tool in 1882. I have the 1882 in the 50 Express. SEE PHOTO’S.

The first EXPRESS ROUNDS were for large caliber rifles primarily. Likely introduced in the 50 Express round for the model 1876 Winchester rifle. The EXPRESS ROUNDS were NOT originally designed for war weapons. They were originally designed for sporting guns to take down game humanely and quickly and they most definitely worked. Look at that early drawing of the expansion rate.

I think I’ll be looking for a long time to find the earliest pistol black powder EXPRESS ROUND. However, I personally think its obvious that once the word got out about stopping power and bullet expansion after removed from game? It’s a no brainer what happened next.

MURPH

BMur · #9 05-02-2024, 04:04 PM

The more I research the EXPRESS ROUND the more I find period reference that was used to advertise the improved cartridge. Gun Manufacturers actually titled their rifles “EXPRESS RIFLES” the early 1880’s.
I believe Winchester was the first but Colt also used the term often for their Lightning model. See photo.

All of the calibers listed in the attached photo were clearly available in Hollow points. So basically the performance of the hollow point was common knowledge by the early 1880’s just the term USED was EXPRESS.

Murph

BMur · #10 05-03-2024, 06:38 PM

My Ideal BLACK POWDER ANTIQUE EXPRESS TOOL arrived today. Extremely rare to find these tools intact. I have a few EXPRESS MOLDS and tools but all are missing the original insert. This one actually has the factory insert.

I was always curious as to what the original tubular core looked like exactly? Look how deep the core is on the BLACK POWDER EXPRESS BULLET ( Photo 1)

Photo 2&3 are post 1900 smokeless Hollow point tools having the wedge core used for many years.

Photo 4 is a modern DEVASTATOR hollow point. Shallow but wide core.

So this is the 140 year transition from the earliest EXPRESS BULLET to todays Hollowpoint. It’s actually further back but this photo’d tool takes us back that far.

Murph