Were the narrow rib barrels on the early K-38 Masterpiece (pre-model14s) straight walled and just thinner than the later wide rib barels . . . or were they also tapered like the Combat Masterpiece (pre-model 15)?

Thanks in advance for any assistance, Russ

The early guns with narrow ribs had tapered barrels.

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.............SmithNut

SmithNut:

Can you give me a serial range for the "marcas registradas" one? I would have thought that it was a little late for the narrow rib... didn't they change to the wide rib, heavy barrel in 1949?

Thanks,

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Richard
Engraved S&W fan

Smithnut:

Do the tapered barrels on these narrow rib K38s Masterpiece Pre-14s seem to have the same dimensions and taper as the 4 inch barrels used on the Combat Masterpiece of the same period?

Thus, I am wondering if the four inch Combat Masterpiece barrels made while these narrow rib tapered K38s were in production were shortened from the 6 inch tapered barrels on the K38s of this late 40s and 1950 to 1953 period.

I guess what I am asking is this: It is generally accepted that the Illinois State Police 5 inch revolvers of about 1957 were straight barrel K38s with the 6 inch barrels shortened to 5 inch and a Baughman ramp front sight on ramp base used.

I suppose I am wondering if the factory did the same thing with the tapered 6 inch barrel of the narrow rib K38 (i.e. shorten the 6 inch tapered barrel to make the 4 inch Combat Masterpiece).

Also, since the Missouri State Highway Patrol guns of October 1952 were 5 inch tapered barrels with the top corners of the frame beveled, do you think those barrels were made by shortening the 6 inch tapered barrel used on the narrow rib K38? I notice your narrow rib K38s have tapered barrels and beveled frame corners.

I am curious because I am trying to sort out in my mind if the Missouri revolvers, which were 5 inch models are correctly classified as Pre-15 Combat Masterpiece or Pre-14 K38.

To add to the confusion, the factory affixed labels to one end of the standard gold K38 box reading "Combat Masterpiece," on the 5 inch Missouri guns yet Roy's letter on said guns calls them Pre-14s.

Keep in mind, the Missouri guns have the features of the Combat Masterpiece, tapered barrels and beveled frame corners, except they are 5 inch guns and they were shipped in 1952 when the narrow rib tapered K38s were still in production.

What is your considered opinion?

Thank you.

Shawn McCarver

RK,
The top gun is K759xx, a 1949 gun (not lettered). As we know, there are generally no hard cut-off points for some of these transisions. Also, IIRC, they made the narrow and wide rib models concurrently for awhile, probably to use up all the older narrow rib barrels.

Shawn,
I do not know for sure if they used the same barrel blanks for the 5" guns as the 6", but it seems logical. We've seen that before on other models. As for why a tapered 5" gun might be identified as a Masterpiece is beyond me, we've also seen examples of that and my opinion is that sometimes the records are filled out by folks that are focused on getting stuff out the door and mistakes are made. As for mis-identifications through the letter process, I'm under the impression that sometimes folks don't give Roy all the details, i.e., the tapered barrel, and this can also lead to assumptions being made.
Anyway, it's my opinion that - at the time - the distinction between the two models was the barrel profile, so a tapered 5" should be a Combat Masterpiece, while the non-tapered 5" guns should be a Masterpiece.
Not sure if this answers your questions, I'm not an authority on these models although I do collect them and study the ones I have. Mike Priwer might be able to shed some additional light on the subject, he's done a ton of research and IIRC has penned some articles on the subject before.

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.............SmithNut

Hi, I guess I'll jump in to share my "2 bits". I recently came into possession of a 5" pre-14 or 15 (you decide), probably made in 1957. This gun is wide rib and non-tapered. It is in the range of the Illinois State Police guns. My thanks to Linde for helping me sort some of this out. A letter has been requested and I'll post whatever comes from that. Of interest to this discussion is the box that came with it. The end label stated "Heavy Masterpiece" "Blued" and "4 inch" with the 4 being crossed out and a grease pencil 5 written above it. I guess the interesting thing to me is the designation of heavy masterpiece for a 4 inch gun sporting a non-tapered barrel. In my mind that would move a gun so configured away from a K-38 (Model 14) and towards the Combat Masterpiece (Model 15) world. Just a thought.
Randy

HeloMt,

Back in that era, the only difference in the Masterpiece and Combat Masterpiece was the barrel length (and sights), so when the Masterpiece line added the wide rib, they used the terminology to designate the differences between the (then) standard narrow rib tapered barrels, from the new wide (heavy) rib barrels, hence the Heavy Masterpiece designation.
Because of this, the Heavy was used until the narrow rib guns were essentially phased out and they dropped the "heavy" designation, staying with just Masterpiece.
These guns were the pre-cursor to what became the Model 14.
I've seen the Heavy Masterpiece terminology only used on 6" barreled guns, so I'm very curious about your label designating Heavy and 4", real curious.... !!!

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.............SmithNut

Here's a copy of the All Model Circular from 1950 showing the Heavy Masterpiece along with the standard Masterpiece, as well as the Combat Masterpiece models available then.

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.............SmithNut

SmithNut,
Yep, the reason I posted it was the very thing you are curious about. Had it said "Heavy Masterpiece" and 6 inch, I would completely concur with your statement. That it is a heavy masterpiece listed with a 4 inch label is the interesting thing. I think I have heard of or seen mentioned 4 inch K-38's. I would be great if someone could post something regarding what end labels were used for such guns. So the question still remains in my mind, a pre-14 or a pre-15?

HeloMt,
Can you post a pic of your box? I'd like to see it for sure.
I have a K38 Masterpiece with a wide rib, they shipped it using an earlier 6" Masterpiece box, but added the label that indicates Heavy Masterpiece.
I'm wondering if your gun was actually put in a 4 inch box (Combat Masterpiece), but using the Heavy Masterpiece label, confusing things. The factory used what ever they could when shipping guns, but I believe it's clear that the Heavy Masterpiece was a variation of the Masterpiece, not the Combat Masterpiece. It might be that they were using up available boxes when they shipped your gun.
My 5" gun, an Illinois St Police model, was shipped in a box that was marked 6", but it is grease penciled out and now indicates 5".
I'm going to have to dig these boxes out now and re-acquaint myself with them.

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.............SmithNut

SmithNut,
Haven't mastered the photo thing yet, but a friend of mine probably can do it. I will make every attempt to get it done. I really do agree with you that S&W probably just used what they had on hand, especially for a low number run like the 5 inch guns were. Just an interesting little nuance which always keeps us curious and entertained . At the end of the day, they are just an old law enforcement gun with great handling qualities.

Here's my 5" Illinois box (dust and all... ), at first glance I was thrown by what appears to be a 4 under the grease marked "5". However, if you look close, it's actually a 6 under there, the grease marking makes it look like a 4 at a quick glance.

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.............SmithNut

SmithNut,
Your box is in better shape than mine (a couple of blown corners). I am at work, but will check closely when I get home. I was kind of curious with your label having hand written "target stocks", did your come have target stocks on it? Mine came with a set of non-relief targets, but I wasn't sure if they would be "proper", as most duty guns from the era in K frames would most likely sport magnas. Just wondering.

SmithNut,
Boy, do I feel silly. My box label is exactly like yours, a 6 inch, covered by a grease pencil 5. Sorry for the confusion. I completely agree with your earlier post regarding the Heavy Masterpiece. Again, sorry for the mistake, my bad. Randy

Randy,
No worries, you actually saved me a lot of time and potentially $$ looking for that elusive 4" Heavy Masterpiece....

Afterall, it's all in the hunt...

Regards,

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.............SmithNut

Rob, thank you so much for 1950s circular. I copied it and it will go with my 1950 K-38 Combat Masterpiece.

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Dick