Triple-lock Letter?

[DARE]

Just acquired this one and wondering whether I should letter it or not.
6 1/2" Nickel .44 spl SN 12090 shipped April 1916.
Hoping for something other than shipped to xyz hardware store.
Did S&W ship more to individuals back then?
A little rust under the grips. Appreciate advice on best way to clean that up.
Probably more desirable with correct grips. Wonder what a set would run?
Thanks for the help.

[StrawHat]

A letter is a roll of the dice. Sometimes you find it shipped to someone, many times it is just to a distributor.

As to the rust, I believe a good polishing with a soft abrasive will take care of the rust but I do not awn a plated revolver. Some will tell you not to use ammonia based cleaners as it will attack the copper wash coat under the nickel plate. And that is good advice, except, S&W did not use a copper wash base.

Kevin

[rct269]

The question of whether to letter or not can only be answered AFTER you get the letter------------OR if/when you ask the good DR. Jinks for a ship date, and he comes back ---adding a not too subtle hint that a letter would be VERRRRRRRRRRRY interesting!!!

Did S&W ship to individuals back then? I collected target guns from beginning to end (My end for revolvers being the end of the 5 screws----my
end for autos being the end of the Model 52's.) The collection was split about 60/40 pre-war-post-war, and about 20-25% were shipped to individuals---all of them being pre-war shipments.

Then again, what I call Shipping Clerk Shorthand can skew such figures---because whatever the Shipping Clerk put down is what's going to show up in the letter. My most noteworthy incident was an early Straight Line (#128) shipped to "G Ward Hasner"----no doubt a famous target shooter of the time. I came up empty with my research into this famous shooter. Then one day, researching something entirely unrelated, I stumbled upon a Geller, Ward & Hasner Hardware Company. I was not amused!!!

As an aside, I lettered all my guns---each and every one---------no exceptions. I've never regretted it.

Ralph Tremaine

As another aside, my knee-jerk opinion---uncluttered by any facts whatsoever is you're more likely to find target guns shipped to individuals than would be the case with service guns----this from one who owned exactly one service gun--------resulting in a credibility factor of 0.000000000001.

And as yet another aside, was a 22/40 (K-22 2nd Model). Its serial number was 682435. Seeing as how the very first one's number was 682420, that made me sit up and take notice!! It was shipped March 21, 1940. The letter said, "This revolver had a 6 inch barrel, blue finish, and checkered walnut silver medallion grips with grip adapter attached. This revolver was shipped on an advertising account at no charge to Mr. Sharpe." (Mr. Sharpe being Philip B. Sharpe, he who S&W credits with the development of the 357 Magnum cartridge----and he who also was given Registered Magnum #2 along the way.) The last line of note in the letter was, "This is a very important revolver." I was a happy camper!! The fellow I bought this gun from had owned it for 10 years------and never lettered it. (!!!!) The lesson to be learned here is fairly obvious.

[mrcvs]

I would letter your Triple Lock revolver. All Triple Lock revolvers deserve to be lettered.

[Housepuss]

Since you are a member of SWCA send Roy a request for a shipping date. If he says something like.......this has an
interesting history..... that might help you decide if a letter is
worth it.

[larryofcc]

Lettered my Triple Lock # 10508, and it was shipped 6-21-1916 to Tufts Lyons Co. Los Angeles, CA. A hardware store that sold washing machines and Thompson Submachineguns. My 38-44 Outdoorsman and first model 22 Outdoorsman, were shipped to individuals. Big Larry

[DARE]

Have decided to letter the gun.

Kevin says it is a roll of the dice. Who doesn't like to roll the dice?

Ralph says he lettered all of his guns. I have found Ralph to be a wise man.

mrcvs says all triple-locks deserve a letter.

Housepuss says ask Roy for a hint. The previous owner did that, but no hint. I have a .44 HE 2nd model that Roy did not give a hint on that went to a Deputy Sheriff in Potter County, TX,
Maybe I will get lucky on this one.

larryofcc says his triple-lock went to the hardware store. Probably mine did too.

Appreciate the feedback. Will post again when I get the letter.

[LLOYD17]

Sometimes they letter to a distributor or hardware store…and then the SWHF swoops in and adds the real info to the story,

A Triple Lock on the beat in Los Angeles

I see letters as a gateway to the SWHF database.

[Summersteel]

Originally Posted by LLOYD17

Sometimes they letter to a distributor or hardware store…and then the SWHF swoops in and adds the real info to the story,

A Triple Lock on the beat in Los Angeles

I see letters as a gateway to the SWHF database.

I didn't think the SWHF records went back far enough to have info on triple locks? Perhaps Ive been mistaken.....

[mrcvs]

Originally Posted by Summersteel

I didn't think the SWHF records went back far enough to have info on triple locks? Perhaps Ive been mistaken.....

They go back to 1920. If a Triple Lock had factory work done on it 1920 or after the SWHF might have information on a Triple Lock revolver. As did one I have that shipped in 1815 that had extensive work done on it in 1929.

[Chuck24]

Mine went to M W Robinson in New York in March 1911

[rct269]

Maybe it's just me, but I wouldn't think of asking Roy for a hint. He most certainly is not going to scam anybody for the sake of a letter order, and he's pretty much forgotten more about this obsession of ours than the rest of us know. So have no fear he doesn't already know what gets our motors running; and I'm quite certain from my own experience he delights in telling us about it------just as much as we delight when the Gun Gods favor us with something special.

The bottom line is he gives hints when he's learned about something that's going to make us happy campers.

Ralph Tremaine

[The Gila Bender]

I lettered my TL, serial #13823, that was manufactured in 1914 and shipped on November 14, 1916 to a mercantile store, W.G. Walz Co., El Paso TX. Another hardware store, nothing special.

I dug into local history to learn what was happening in and around El Paso at the time and came across a paper entitled "The El Paso Race Riot of 1916", a fascinating study of border and racial turbulence that led to violent aggression on both sides of the border in late 1915-early 1916.

Pancho Villa's raid on Columbus, New Mexico on March 9, 1916 was immediately followed by the "Punitive Expedition", an American military operation conducted by the United States Army against the paramilitary forces of the Mexican revolution from March 14, 1916, to February 7, 1917, during the Mexican Revolution of 1910–1920.

The TL itself doesn't have a documented history, but history surrounds this TL. Did it belong a Lawman? Cattleman? Rancher? Banker? Freighter? Military Officer? We will never know who it belonged to or how it was used. It is a fascinating relic of America's past...and a darn good shooter too.

Gila's El Paso TL 13823.jpg

[paplinker]

I am going through the same dilemma on two King converted service guns I just bought. Like Ralph said he thinks its less likely a service gun will ship to a individual, I would agree.

The only problem with that is that King is known for selling converted service guns, new straight from their shop.

One is a HD the other a MP

I look for guns shipped straight from King.

[DARE]

Rich,
I guess you are saying the letter would say it went to Kings or went to a distributor and gun owner later sent it to Kings. To me that letter would be interesting either way.
Don't know much about King letters. Would be instructive to me and probably some more of the group to see some examples of the letters you have gotten on other guns.

[paplinker]

Originally Posted by JADARE

Rich,
I guess you are saying the letter would say it went to Kings or went to a distributor and gun owner later sent it to Kings. To me that letter would be interesting either way.
Don't know much about King letters. Would be instructive to me and probably some more of the group to see some examples of the letters you have gotten on other guns.

Back in the day King was a distributor. You could buy guns from them in original condition,or have them do any of their mods before it was picked up. I do not know if they had any modified guns made before the sale.

After Mr King died the wife burned all the old records I was told so researching guns sent back to King later would be pretty hard to document.

Maybe I can make a thread with my King lettered gun. I know of three on this forum for sure.

[rct269]

"I do not know if they had any modified guns made before the sale."

If that means if one could buy a new gun from King which came to you already modified, the answer is yes you could. The bad news is I know you could buy "Colt-King" and "High Standard-King" pistols, but I don't know about "S&W-King".

I reckon you could get "S&W-King" guns, but that's only because the King catalog (a reprint) I have purports to be from 1939--------and I don't have a clue as to what King was doing after 1939 and before 1955(??) when they went out of business-----but it at least makes sense they'd moved on to doing "S&W-King" guns.

I also know James Wallinger and James King did a series of articles in the SWCA Journal which covers King extensively---a four parter starting with the Spring 2001 issue, onto the Spring 2002, onto Spring 2005, and finally wrapping up in the Summer 2006 issue. You get your grubby little paws on those issues, and you're an instant expert.

Ralph Tremaine

[mrcvs]

You posted a ship date request in that section, but if you scroll down your post you can find similar threads and you will see thatDr Jinks, on 02-17-2020, at 4:43 pm, on behalf of a previous owner, states that Triple Lock revolver 12090 shipped in April 1916. So you don’t have to ask Dr Jinks this again.

[delcrossv]

No comment about lettering this, but on plated guns, Naval Jelly is the stuff to use on that rust.

[HeloMt]

Another interesting fact about the S&W/King relationship. I know that S&W sent new guns to King for sight modification then back to S&W for delivery to the customer. I have a 2nd model target that was ordered by a distributor for a customer desiring King sights on the new revolver. S&W prepared the revolver, shipped it to King for the sight work who returned it to S&W, who sent it then to the distributor who delivered it to the customer. Two airmail trips across the country in 1940 for King sights on a new S&W target 2nd model. Pretty amazing when you think about it. Again, none of this would have been known without a letter and subsequent research by the Historical Foundation. Yep...letters are always worth it in my mind for any prewar S&W.

[DARE]

Ralph,
When I talked about asking Roy for a hint, I meant asking him for a ship date and hoping for a hint. Have not actually asked him for a hint.

mrcvs,
Asked Roy for a shipping date and did not get a hint on my .44 HE 2nd model. The gun shipped to a deputy sheriff in Texas.
Got a letter for my Registered Magnum. Roy and Don got their wires crossed and I got letters from both of them on the gun. Don mentioned that the gun appeared to have been owned by an FBI agent in the San Antonio, TX area. Roy did not.
The gun shipped to a distributor, so Don was looking at S&WHF documents to give me the heads up about LEO provenance. Maybe Roy was not looking at the same info.

Asked Roy for a shipping date on this gun hoping for a hint. I knew that a shipping date request had already been made for the gun. Was hoping for a hint that Roy might have missed on the 1st request.

[lamarw]

Here are a couple of pictures of one of mine. The finish looked much worse than yours when I received it. I was advised to remove all the cancerous mess from mine and since it had an original nickel finish to use a naval jelly type chemical to halt the corrosive growth.

Also pictured is the second page of the S&W Historical Letter.

[DARE]

lamarw,
Just ordered some naval jelly. delcrossv recommended it to remove the rust under the grips.
Would it be good to use on the whole gun?
What did you use to "remove all the cancerous mess"?
Your gun certainly looks good now.

[Muley Gil]

Originally Posted by JADARE

lamarw,
Just ordered some naval jelly. delcrossv recommended it to remove the rust under the grips.
Would it be good to use on the whole gun?
What did you use to "remove all the cancerous mess"?
Your gun certainly looks good now.

I wouldn't. I would use a polish like Simichrome.

[handejector]

I would use naval jelly on the grip frame, applied sparingly with a Q-tip.
Do NOT put it on case hardened or blue parts.

[lamarw]

If it is in fact a S&W Original nickel finish (see Strawhat's comment above) naval jelly should not adversely affet the finish.

It was a matter of saving 60 to 70 % of the undamaged finish by removing the corrosion. It entailed a lot of polishing and scrubbing to do so. I then coated it with Renaissance Wax.

[Nonno]

Originally Posted by larryofcc

Lettered my Triple Lock # 10508, and it was shipped 6-21-1916 to Tufts Lyons Co. Los Angeles, CA. A hardware store that sold washing machines and Thompson Submachineguns.

I'd want a letter about that hardware store. Washing machines and submachine guns? There's a lot more to this story...

[gator59]

Guess I shouldn’t bother lettering my 3 digit serial number Triple Lock if records only go back to 1920?

[DARE]

gator59,
I think you should letter the gun. A 3 digit gun is a show stopper.
S&WHF documents only go back to 1920. A letter will tell you when it shipped, configuration and who it went to. The S&WHF docs that only go back to 1920 are things like the invoice and repair correspondence.

[CalifEd]

Do a Google search for Tufts Lyons Co.
There is an interesting web page with a photo and a little bit of history.
Also, Tufts Lyons Arms Co. seems to be related

[Muley Gil]

Originally Posted by larryofcc

Lettered my Triple Lock # 10508, and it was shipped 6-21-1916 to Tufts Lyons Co. Los Angeles, CA. A hardware store that sold washing machines and Thompson Submachineguns. My 38-44 Outdoorsman and first model 22 Outdoorsman, were shipped to individuals. Big Larry

I was telling my wife about Tufts & she told me that she had seen the Tufts Appliances sign on a building while watching reruns of the TV series Emergency.

[CalifEd]

I did a google earth for the 609-611 S. Olive street in Los Angeles.
Building is still there but store front is now a beauty salon.
The block is across the street from Pershing Square in downtown.

[DARE]

Got the letter today. Nothing special. Went to the Cowdrey Company in NYC.
Thanks to Don Mundell for the quick turn around. Mailed my check on Jan 24.

[mrcvs]

Originally Posted by JADARE

Got the letter today. Nothing special. Went to the Cowdrey Company in NYC.
Thanks to Don Mundell for the quick turn around. Mailed my check on Jan 24.

Here’s a letter I have for a Triple Lock Target Model revolver that shipped the same day as yours, 14 April 1916, but to a different distributor.