I am trying to determine a value for a S&W .44 Hand Ejector Second Model Ser # 36xxx. It is stamped on the back strap Utah Highway Patrol 26. I have the S&W letter on it indicating it was shipped to a Hardware Store in Salt Lake City Utah for the Utah Highway Patrol January 23, 1934.

The letter also indicated it had been factory refinished (appearently a long time ago).

I will try to include a photo.

Any help is appreciated.

Thank you,

Attached Images

	.44 008.jpg (34.5 KB, 222 views)
	.44 002.jpg (32.1 KB, 199 views)
	.44 005.jpg (44.1 KB, 215 views)
	.44 001.jpg (20.0 KB, 248 views)

Utah.44,

Nice old .44 you have there! Other members, more acquainted with 2nd Model HEs, will be along shortly and help you with your question about value.

I just wanted to welcome you to the Forum, and suggest you and member, Saxon Pig, should get together vis-a-vis Utah HP S&W revolvers sometime.

Have you shot that that old .44?

Thanks for the post,

Jerry

I have number 8. I paid $1,000 for it about 3 years ago.

Mine came from an out-of-state dealer. Did you find yours locally (SLC)?

What was the name of the hardware store?

__________________
No life story has happy end.

Neat gun.
How did the Historian know it had been refinished?
Did you send pics of a star on the butt, and/or a frame date?

__________________
Regards,
Lee Jarrett

Thanks for the replies.

The .44 and a few other firearms were given to me by my grandfather who had been a gun trader from 1929 to 1984.
Thousands of firearms passed through his hands but he only kept a few.
I don't know where or when he picked up the .44 . He did travel around the US and sometimes bought firearms on his trips.

The historian indicated the factory refinish was denoted by a star after the serial number on the butt.

I have shot the .44 and it is really a nice shooter. It was the first revolver my son fired when he was 9, he's now in his 30s.

The S&W letter indicates the .44 was one of 2 in a shipment to Salt Lake City Hardware Co., Salt Lake City, UT- no address given appearently everyone knew where the hardware store was back then. The other .44 was numbered 25.

I am new to the forum and not sure how to get together with SaxonPig directly.

Salt Lake Hardware was a large wholesaler of all sorts of things, including firearms. They were a distributor for S&W as late as the 1970's.

Utah.44: Where in the country do you live? Where did your grandfather live?

You can send Saxon Pig a message by clicking on his name in a post and following the choices.

Central Illinois for both of us. Grandgather is deceased.

It is interesting to see how the UHP .44's got around. Mine came back to Utah from Texas.

I wonder how the UHP disposed of them when they got the .357's?

I read that the switch to magnums was in 1938. I wonder how high a number they got to in the .44 series before 1938?

I just saw SaxonPigs last post with a photo of the UHP magnum engraved on the side.

Hard telling how they disposed of the .44s. They may have let the troopers have them, or buy them or they may have been sold to the public or traded in.

I was able to buy my original Mod 10 after we transitioned to semi autos. I was also able to buy my Sig 220 since it was no longer going to be issued. I have not obtained a S&W letter on the Mod 10 but I should- it is an old thin barrel thats been around and shoots a little high and left.

The letter on my UHP RM details the repair record (as seems to be the case with this 44) so apparently this is available to Roy. Maybe because it became part of the record as the whole order was returned for service and not just some individual guns?

__________________
No life story has happy end.

That sounds reasonable. Do we know of any other UHP .44s and if the S&W letter idicates factory refinshed as well?

I have never lettered mine.

Thanks.
That is why I asked- I figured that he was told it had a star.
We used to always assume a star meant a refinish. In the last few years, we have come to realize "it ain't necessarily so". A star simply shows that a gun was returned for SERVICE OF SOME KIND. That service was often a refinish. Often, that service was NOT a refinish, but some other service.

I do not believe that gun is refinished.
Reason- the backstrap of a police holster gun is exposed to more rain, sweat, dust, dirt, coffee, donut glaze, and sun than any other part of the gun. It is always the first area to rust and turn brown. Therefore, the backstrap of a cop gun would have to be buffed during a refinish.
Look at the first pic of the UHP markings on the backstrap. Rollmarks displace metal, usually creating "raised" areas around the marks. These raised areas are especially prominent below the t,a, and h in Utah, and in the center of the 6.
If that gun had been buffed for a reblue, those tiny raised areas would be gone.
IMO, that gun has not been refinished.

__________________
Regards,
Lee Jarrett

I just looked again.
Actually, those marks may not be rollmarked. The factory probably did not make a roll die for small orders.
They ARE stamped, though, so the effect is the same.
Probably done with a jig that clamped the letters together, and then pressed them hydraulically, or with a large screw clamp.
Possibly, once jigged, they were merely struck individually with a transfer bar between the hammer face and each small punch.

Or, it could have been an even simpler jig. Each punch could have a groove on the shank for alignment. A jig that had an alignment bar could have evenly spaced "ribs" for the grooved punches to slide down. They could be stamped one at the time by moving to each succeeding rib.

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

I also have a pretty early .44 that I was hoping to post
pictures of and as much info. as I can for valuation help.

I understand that to state a value range,something like a possible refinish is a major factor,as well as a large variety
of other factors.

Is it possible to actually come up with some real world
numbers? Are knowledgeable people reluctant to state
values.

Please understand,these are sincere questions and in no way reflect a critical attitude. Not to many comps on GB.

__________________
I Love This Site

Handejector- I didn't send photos to the historian , I just told him it was there and accepted his explination. My photos are not the best. Someone else who looked at the .44 didn't think it looked refinished either.

I did read somewhere the UHP .44s were worn in a flapped holster but I agree with the back strap wear. I have seen that in more recent police revolvers. Its hard telling where this .44 has been or the abuse it has seen since 1934, or 1938 after it left UHP.

I assume the UHP connection would place the value above the same condition .44 otherwise factory refinished or not especially to a UHP collector.

I will try to get some better photos and post them.

I am enjoying the forum.

The Salt Lake Hardware is still standing but the company closed many years ago. I own a Triple Lock shipped to them in 1909. There is a nicely done history of the Utah Highway Patrol accessible online. The switch to the Registered Magnum was made about 1938. I've been attending gun shows in Salt Lake for years and never seen one walk in or acquired by another dealer. I think they must have been disposed of out of state.

__________________
Joseph L. Lyon

I forgot to mention it in my prior post but I did pick up a Model 27 with Utah Highway Patrol markings at a gun show about five years ago. It was purchased as they were converting to HK pistols, and never issued.

__________________
Joseph L. Lyon

I have shooter friends that were UHP troopers when the department switched from the 3-1/2" Model 27 to the H&K 9mm squeeze cockers. It nearly killed them!

I got mine (number 8, s/n 36483) out and am looking at it now. Mine has no rework star. The backstrap's finish is not too worn, but the finish on the barrel's forward sides is worn nearly to the ejector rod lock. The wear looks like one might expect from much carriage in a flap holster like the UHP troopers are pictured wearing, protecting the backstrap.

Concerning the backstrap markings discussed by handejector, comparing Utah.44's clear photo to mine, I think that some sort of fixture must have been used as the guns exhibit the same characteristics, the "U" is slightly elevated above the smaller "T", as is the "P" to a slightly lesser amount. If no fixture, then the uniformity indicates that perhaps the stamping was done by a one piece stamp, except for the digit at the end.

Yes, I gotta get a camera.

Utah.44, how close are our serial numbers? You can p.m. a reply if you prefer.

I live in Salt Lake. The Salt Lake Hardware Building still stands on the northwest corner of North Temple Street and 4th West. The name is still on the building, but it is empty. I have a Triple Lock that shipped to them in 1911.

There is an excellent on-line history of the Utah Highway Patrol from its founding in the late 1920's to the present, but I could find no pictures of their pistols, only the report of the type of weapons they used. I own a Model 27 marked "Utah Highway Patrol", and unissued according to an accompanying letter from their personnel officer. It was purchased shortly before they switched to semi-automatic pistols, and never issued. I paid $850 for it two years ago.

I have been attending gun shows in Salt Lake for the last 26 years and have never seen a Utah Highway Patrol 44 Special for sale, nor have any of the larger gun dealers seen one. I wonder where they went wen they were sold off. I purchased my Model 27 from a dealer who had acquired it from a former Utah Highway Patrolman. He bought because of its condition.

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Joseph L. Lyon

You are not alone, epidoc. I started looking for S&W .44 Specials in probably 1976 and I don't think I have seen more than six old ones (pre-24-3/earlier than 1966) for sale locally (I'm in Sandy), in gun shops or at shows. I got pretty excited when I saw the UHP gun I bought advertised.

As few of these as UHP bought, I wonder, how many have survived?

The internet may be one of the best things to ever happen to gun accumulators. Nation-wide marketplace at your fingertips.

Edited to add: According to the UHP history web site, UHP first armed troopers in 1928 with "S&W .44 caliber revolvers." If I have #8, close to Utah.44's #26 in serial number, my guess (only a guess) is that these (#1 thru #26) were supplemental to the first ones bought and issued. I wonder if they were marked?

There were 34 troopers by 1934 and 51 troopers by 1940.

The Salt Lake Hardware Company with name in stone still stands on the northwest corner of North Temple Street and 4th West, but it is now empty. I have an early Triple Lock that was shipped to them in 1911.

There is a nicely done history of the Utah Highway Patrol available on-line. It mentions the sidearms used, but does not give exact dates when transitions were made or the numbers purchased.

I've been attending gun shows in Utah for 25 years and have only seen one pistol Utah Highway Patrol pistol with ownership marks. It was Model 27, made shortly before they changed to semi-automatics and came with a letter stating had not been issued, but sold to an unnamed officer. I bought it for $850.

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Joseph L. Lyon