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05-07-2010, 11:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwill1911
SmithNut,
It would be an easy matter to use your text and pictures to turn this into an article for the S&WCA Journal. Why not? My only wish would be to add some info/pics about the U.S. Military purchases of Model 14's.
Regards,
Kevin Williams
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Thanks for the comments Kevin, appreciate the suggestion. Obviously this is a work in progress with more to do. I'll definately keep that in mind as I fill in the holes in this collection. As for the Military purchases, I'm not totally familiar with all the aspects there, although I've followed some of the discussions of the AFPG marked guns....
When the time comes, it's likely that I'd have to connect with someone that has focused on the Military aspect of the K-38 Masterpiece and possibly do a joint article.
Thanks again, appreciate the suggestion
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05-08-2010, 01:35 AM
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Hello Rob.
I still have my model 14-2 Dayton gun. With numbered p.c. magnas.
Love to shoot this one.
picture of the model 10 barrel with ramp base installed.
And a "very special gun" 5" K-38 Masterpiece ,Illinois state police. K302808. Showing wear as one that was carried would.
And my model 14-3 P.P.C. gun ,with thousands of 38s' downrange.
Regards , Allen Nut
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05-11-2010, 09:31 PM
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Mr.Smithnut, I too would like to thank you for posting; a lot of great information, as usual. I've got four of them and echo your high regard for this model. Here are some photos, followed by a couple of questions:
K1784xx; 1953, 5-screw pre-14; I always thought that the target hammer was after market, but after reading your post, maybe not:
K3024xx; 1957, 4-screw pre-14; same sn range as the Ill.S.P., but not so lucky as to be one; notice the "fish hook" hammer:
K6695xx; 1966, 3-screw M14-2; nothing great about it except the way that it shoots:
1K742xx; 1971, 3-screw M14-3; 8-3/8" bbl w/cheezey-looking Siles grips (...gotta get some of those Spegals) :
So...a couple of questions:
1. Is the "fish-hook" hammer likely correct for the above 1957 4-screw?
2. Did the K38 Masterpieces from the early 50's have plastic grip medallions like we sometimes see in the K22's and K38 Combat Masterpieces from the Korean War period?
Thanks again for taking the time to post this thread. -S2
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05-12-2010, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedo2
So...a couple of questions:
1. Is the "fish-hook" hammer likely correct for the above 1957 4-screw?
2. Did the K38 Masterpieces from the early 50's have plastic grip medallions like we sometimes see in the K22's and K38 Combat Masterpieces from the Korean War period?
Thanks again for taking the time to post this thread. -S2
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Great pics Speedo2, thanks for posting.
To your questions...
1- I believe your gun is likely original, I have one 4 screw Model 14 (model marked) from 1958 that has the fish hook hammer and believe it's original. The factory didn't throw anything away and I've seen many guns into the late 50's using that hammer, so it's likely original, IMO.
2- I've not really paid any attention to the plastic medallion thing, but I have this nagging "remembrence" that they were later - into the 60's timeframe for some reason. Can't help here, but will inspect my collection to see if any are plastic and post an update.
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05-18-2010, 09:14 PM
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Thanks for sharing the pics of your Masterpieces! I especially love the 5" ISP gun. What I'd give to run across one of those. I own a 1954 K-38 (K2177XX). It's in like new condition (I've never fired it..I've got a K-38 made in 1971 that I shoot). I've love the old 5 screw smiths. Once again, thanks for the history lesson of the K-38.
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05-23-2010, 06:45 PM
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Fantastic educational post. I am in awe of your knowledge & collection. Thank you
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05-24-2010, 12:00 AM
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Nice photo essay, "SmithNut". I regret not buying several K38s before I retired from the LAPD. There were LOTS of them around, including 4" cut-down ones that had been re-issued. The old-time coppers that had them would have sold them upon retirement for $75.00 or so cash (LAPD would sell the issued revolver as "surplus" to the retiring officer for around $50.00). I knew of a couple that were literally almost NIB after issue in the Academy to the officer. Nobody (including me) wanted an old 6" .38 then.
Bob
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05-24-2010, 02:02 AM
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Very educational and well done, thank you Mr. Smithnut.
I have thought for a while now that I might want a K-38. I am thinking now I "have" to have one some day.
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06-13-2010, 12:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedo2
So...a couple of questions:
1. Is the "fish-hook" hammer likely correct for the above 1957 4-screw?
2. Did the K38 Masterpieces from the early 50's have plastic grip medallions like we sometimes see in the K22's and K38 Combat Masterpieces from the Korean War period?
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I have only seen the plastic medallions in a very short window in the very early 50's.
In other words, 5 screw guns from around 51, as I recall. I do not believe they were specific to particular models, but that is just a guess. Hard to tell, cause they are so rarely seen. I have seen them on two different K frame models, and one small frame, but I don't remember what it was.
I have yet to find them on an N frame.
I think they abandoned the idea very quickly.
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Lee Jarrett
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06-14-2010, 06:17 PM
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thank you for sharing.... these are really nice. I started bullseye with a model 14 and have several, not as early as yours. they all shoot very well.
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06-14-2010, 07:30 PM
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great info on a great gun. i just got my first one 3 weeks ago (14-3), only shot it twice so far, but it is turning into one of my favorate handguns.
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04-11-2013, 05:00 PM
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Wow this is a wonderful thread. I truly regret selling my model 14 when the sheriff finally authorized use of .357 mag ammunition and succumbed to magnumitus. I do take comfort in that I was able to pick up a model 15 last year. Still on the hunt for a k38 from my birth year (1951) but as I am in California it's extremely difficult.
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04-11-2013, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dscampbell
Wow this is a wonderful thread. I truly regret selling my model 14 when the sheriff finally authorized use of .357 mag ammunition and succumbed to magnumitus. I do take comfort in that I was able to pick up a model 15 last year. Still on the hunt for a k38 from my birth year (1951) but as I am in California it's extremely difficult.
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Actually a 1951 revolver is automatically classified as a Curio & Relic, so the gun you want could come into this state from any other state with no trouble whatsoever. You are looking for one with a serial number between about K105000 and K125000, with a little fuzziness at either end of the range.
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04-11-2013, 07:46 PM
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It's a great thread. Glad that The Ampersand featured it.
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04-11-2013, 08:03 PM
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Yes, I'm missing one of those....
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCWilson
I had completely forgotten about this thread, and I am glad it came back so I could study SmithNut's first-rate K-38 photos all over again.
Perhaps the only distinctive type of K-38 not already represented in this thread is the very early type with the large ejector rod knob. These guns were barely on collectors' radar screens at the time this thread was first live, but in the last couple of years a few have been posted and discussed here. I have K4709, which was featured in a recent thread about the LERK Masterpiece models. A pic:
I believe no more than 350 K-38s were produced with the large ejector rod knob; only five have been reported on this forum, though members may own a few more that have not been discussed. All others almost certainly carry the knobless rods seen in the other photos in this thread.
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David,
That is a fantastic example of a very scarce variation. I'd love to add a large ejector rod model to my fledgling collection. As well, I'd also like to add a Mexican Model, it's part of the history of this fine S&W product, IMO.
My collection of K38 Masterpieces was assembled, primarily, from the NW, gun-shops, pawn shops and of course trades with other local collectors. I have resisted the urge to haunt the auction houses, knowing that some rare examples show up from time to time, but the hunt is as much fun as having these guns in my possession. One of these days I'll run into a large ejector rod version, hopefully in good condition.
Thanks for posting yours, it's a very nice gun.
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04-11-2013, 08:34 PM
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I only looked casually through the whole thread. I didn't see any mention of, nor pictures of,
a Mexican Model. My understanding is that its a post-WW2 K-38 .
Regards, Mike
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04-11-2013, 08:34 PM
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Thanks for a very informative essay on the K38. My 14-2 (1967), Ser.
#K7645XX has original magna non-diamond stocks with the serial
number written inside. I have since replaced the stocks (but keep them) with Ahrends cocobolo stocks which fit me better. The revolver came with standard hammer and trigger.
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04-11-2013, 08:35 PM
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This thread has aged very nicely. Very glad that it got bumped. I enjoyed it as much today as I did several years ago. Thanks for taking me for a walk down "Masterpiece" Lane.
SN - Thanks again!
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04-11-2013, 08:39 PM
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A hearty Thank You! SmithNut. I'll be spending some extra time going over your great photos of these guns.
Jerry
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04-11-2013, 08:40 PM
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This was my Dad's K-38 Heavy Masterpiece
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04-11-2013, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikepriwer
I only looked casually through the whole thread. I didn't see any mention of, nor pictures of,
a Mexican Model. My understanding is that its a post-WW2 K-38 .
Regards, Mike
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Mike,
Yes, that is lacking in the herd, know where I might find one... ?
Would love to add one to the collection, or at least one day hold one and photograph one...
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04-11-2013, 09:03 PM
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14 K38
This is a great thread! Glad it was brought up and revived! I have a Model 14-3 Single Action, listed it for sale then took it out to shoot one more time and thought, Damn Nice gun and pulled it! Forgot how nice it was to shoot! Don't think I will ever let it go now! They just don't make them like this anymore!
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04-11-2013, 09:29 PM
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I know this took some time to put together and the results are great. Thanks for sharing a great collection of 14's. I only have one left, its one of 10 of an over run sent to Miami Fla. The over run is the Illinois State Police 5" revolvers. Thanks to Linde I now own this gun. Thanks Russ, Larry
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04-11-2013, 09:40 PM
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Thank you for the beautiful gallery! It made me recall memories of my own K-38 which I bought in the early 1950s while shooting with a police pistol team. The price (new) back then was just a shade over $50.00. As I stated on my original post, I let it go to a fellow officer when I left the department. After moving several times in my new job and after retirement, I began going through my shooting related "stuff" and began selling much of it on Ebay. In the process, I discovered the original K-38 box that had somehow followed me to my present home after all these years. I put it up on Ebay and it sold for over double the price I paid for the gun. Here is a pic of the box.
Jay Pierce
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04-12-2013, 08:46 AM
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What a timely thread for you to post. It is great. I didn't know the mod 14 was that great before. By coincidence I just last weekend saw a nice looking 14-3 at a LGS with the original box. I was trading for a 27-2 8 3/8 at the time. I saw it and something told me I better not let that one go so I made a down payment for layaway to tie it up. I'm glad I did. Thanks.
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04-12-2013, 10:10 AM
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Great pictorial. Here's my 14-4 #83K70**
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04-12-2013, 12:56 PM
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What a great thread! Thanks a lot to SmithNut and all who share with us their treasures
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04-12-2013, 02:34 PM
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My meager offering of a Model 14-3:
Sorry for the Siles, they were on it when I got it. It now wears Pach Pro Grippers, like my Mod 10 PPC gun. I really like this gun and intend to add an extended cylinder release and start my daughter (almost 10 yrs old) out on centerfire with it.
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04-12-2013, 09:39 PM
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Great post Smithnut. It will be standard reference for many people for a long time. Thanks.
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04-12-2013, 10:04 PM
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HA Rob!
I finally have a Smith that you don't! Only took me 12 years to do it!
14-1 Pinto.
Drew
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04-13-2013, 08:43 AM
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Wow.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebago Son
HA Rob!
I finally have a Smith that you don't! Only took me 12 years to do it!
14-1 Pinto.
Drew
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Drew,
Very interesting... does it letter?
Don't recall seeing any M14 Pintos, it almost looks like a nickel barrel and cylinder from a Combat Masterpiece on that M14-1 frame.
Do you have any history on the gun you can share?
Thanks for posting
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04-13-2013, 11:09 AM
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14-1 Pinto Info...
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmithNut
Drew,
Very interesting... does it letter?
Don't recall seeing any M14 Pintos, it almost looks like a nickel barrel and cylinder from a Combat Masterpiece on that M14-1 frame.
Do you have any history on the gun you can share?
Thanks for posting
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No I really don't Rob. I have been remiss in lettering a bunch of guns.
I hadn't seen the Pinto for a while, so I went down and dug it out... here's a few more tidbits and some fresh snaps.
The gun has seen some holster time. It's serial is in the K413,000 range. The barrel is "N" marked, but not serialed to the frame. The cylinder is serial numbered and matches. It is also marked "L" between two of the charging holes and has the undercut on the ejector rod.
There are no rework / special finish codes under the stocks. The stocks themselves are rosewood smooth magnas with black washers. They really don't fit all that well. No serial numbers on the stocks.
The fella I bought it from had nothing to say about it's history. I do know that after I put the photos up the last time a well known "Pinto" collector chased me around for a while trying to buy this gun. He became quite ardent after I gave him the serial number. I didn't sell and he didn't tell me what he knew....
Drew
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04-13-2013, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebago Son
No I really don't Rob. I have been remiss in lettering a bunch of guns.
I hadn't seen the Pinto for a while, so I went down and dug it out... here's a few more tidbits and some fresh snaps.
The gun has seen some holster time. It's serial is in the K413,000 range. The barrel is "N" marked, but not serialed to the frame. The cylinder is serial numbered and matches. It is also marked "L" between two of the charging holes and has the undercut on the ejector rod.
There are no rework / special finish codes under the stocks. The stocks themselves are rosewood smooth magnas with black washers. They really don't fit all that well. No serial numbers on the stocks.
The fella I bought it from had nothing to say about it's history. I do know that after I put the photos up the last time a well known "Pinto" collector chased me around for a while trying to buy this gun. He became quite ardent after I gave him the serial number. I didn't sell and he didn't tell me what he knew....
Drew
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Very cool Drew, thanks for the extra pics. Not only a -1, but a 4" M14, pretty special.
Pintos are in a class by themselves, I've only had one or two over the years and the first M14 for sure.
Love the grips as well, I have seen Combat Masterpiece pintos with the smooth magnas before, interesting.
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04-13-2013, 11:29 AM
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Speaking of pinto models...
Drew,
As a follow up to my comment about seeing Combat Masterpiece pintos, I'll add these pics of Mike Priwer's fantastic, awesome, cool, desireable, much lusted after 3" gun... (do you think I like this gun?)
I had the privilege of taking some pics of this a few years back, I dream of this gun being added to my 3" K-frame collection.... someday....maybe..... hopefully.... (Mike, are you listening... )
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04-13-2013, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmithNut
Very cool Drew, thanks for the extra pics. Not only a -1, but a 4" M14, pretty special.
Pintos are in a class by themselves, I've only had one or two over the years and the first M14 for sure.
Love the grips as well, I have seen Combat Masterpiece pintos with the smooth magnas before, interesting.
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Thanks Rob! It will be even more interesting if it comes back as straight! But I think it will. The numbered, under cut cylinder is, to me at least, very telling.
I've got to get a bunch of guns lettered and I've been too much of a slug to get it done...
Drew
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04-13-2013, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmithNut
Drew,
As a follow up to my comment about seeing Combat Masterpiece pintos, I'll add these pics of Mike Priwer's fantastic, awesome, cool, desireable, much lusted after 3" gun... (do you think I like this gun?)
I had the privilege of taking some pics of this a few years back, I dream of this gun being added to my 3" K-frame collection.... someday....maybe..... hopefully.... (Mike, are you listening... )
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Damn. That's a beauty. Makes mine look like a trot line weight. Thanks to you and Mike both for a chance to see it!
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04-13-2013, 02:36 PM
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K93xxx
Last edited by heiner71; 05-30-2015 at 06:02 PM.
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04-13-2013, 04:34 PM
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I have enjoyed reading this thread since its inception a couple of years ago. It's a timeless topic.
I do have a couple of questions regarding my Model 14 and Masterpiece revolvers in general. My revolver has the serial number (K 31231x) located in only one location-the bottom of the butt (and also on the original grips the gun came with). I can find no indication as to the model number, neither model 14 nor K-38 Masterpiece, anywhere on the revolver. Other than the manufacturer's name and address on the right side of the frame; "38 S&W SPECIAL CTG." on the right side of the barrel and "SMITH&WESSON" on the left side of the barrel, there is no reference as to the model designation. The number 26728 and number/letter 6 L is stamped inside the crane/yoke area.
It's my understanding that my revolver was made during the transitional year of 1957, when model names were being replaced by model numbers. But my revolver has neither the model name nor the model number. Is this typical? Thanks for any insights to this question.
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04-13-2013, 05:02 PM
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Hammers...
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmithNut
Great pics Speedo2, thanks for posting.
To your questions...
1- I believe your gun is likely original, I have one 4 screw Model 14 (model marked) from 1958 that has the fish hook hammer and believe it's original. The factory didn't throw anything away and I've seen many guns into the late 50's using that hammer, so it's likely original, IMO.
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With regard to the "Fishhook" or "Sculpted" hammer, I think that a few escaped even later than the 50's. The lower gun here is a model marked 10-dash-something-or-other well into the 60's. I've had it a while and considering that I bought it from a non-aficionado, I believe it is as built.
Drew
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04-13-2013, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgludwig
I have enjoyed reading this thread since its inception a couple of years ago. It's a timeless topic.
I do have a couple of questions regarding my Model 14 and Masterpiece revolvers in general. My revolver has the serial number (K 31231x) located in only one location-the bottom of the butt (and also on the original grips the gun came with). I can find no indication as to the model number, neither model 14 nor K-38 Masterpiece, anywhere on the revolver. Other than the manufacturer's name and address on the right side of the frame; "38 S&W SPECIAL CTG." on the right side of the barrel and "SMITH&WESSON" on the left side of the barrel, there is no reference as to the model designation. The number 26728 and number/letter 6 L is stamped inside the crane/yoke area.
It's my understanding that my revolver was made during the transitional year of 1957, when model names were being replaced by model numbers. But my revolver has neither the model name nor the model number. Is this typical? Thanks for any insights to this question.
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dgludwig,
Your revolver was likely made in the 1957/58 timeframe, which is about the time that Model numbers started showing up on S&W guns. There are lots of exceptions, but given that, your gun is/was made just prior to model numbers being implemented. As for the name, none of these guns ever were stamped as Masterpiece, that is just what the factory called them. They are truly masterpieces when it comes to function, fit and finish, but almost universally Model names were not usually found on S&W revolvers, there are exceptions, for example the Highway Patrolman, and as we get later in production there are other examples in the late 80's (Model of 1989, etc), but these are exceptions to the norm. The model names were assigned within the factory and continued even after they started assigning model numbers, you will find many references to Model names in factory catalogs and flyers for many decades.
As to the serial numbers, in the 4 screw era we did start to see less and less stamping of serial numbers. For fun, look at the underside of the extractor star, you will need to push it out as if you are ejecting the shells and look under, use a flash light as the numbers are small (if there, you will probably not see the K, just the serial numbers), as well, swing out the cylinder and look at the crane through one of the chambers, if the s/n is there it is on the surface that faces the front of the cylinder.
Regards,
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04-13-2013, 07:19 PM
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I may have to make some changes in my lifestyle soon. Some things one must simply enjoy while they can. Here are a few I have enjoyed over the years, including concealed carry. Give me a few minutes to try and address the problem. http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...csAug27027.jpg Have to thank a man named Lyle for helping me to own the one on top. The next:
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...27/0707016.jpg is a close-up of some beautiful grips and case colors on a 14-1 with 8 3/8" tube. This factory nickel: http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3.../022009055.jpg is a later 14-8 and the only one I ever warmed up to.
Last edited by YeshuaIsa53; 04-13-2013 at 07:40 PM.
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04-13-2013, 07:41 PM
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These were made to fill voids in the ways certain revolvers were always made. http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...-22/SWs004.jpg It, too, is an exception of a nickel Model 14. Think this was a dash five: One of The Twelve Revolvers, called The Last Stand.
Last edited by YeshuaIsa53; 04-13-2013 at 07:45 PM.
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04-13-2013, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bud Jr.
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Bud Jr,
Nice pic, for sure. The top gun is fantastic, is it one of the Combat Masterpiece guns for Missouri? Are you referring to Lyle Larkworthy? He had some fine Law Enforcement guns and I recall him owning one of the 5" Combat Masterpiece models. The other two are great guns as well, if you don't mind, would you send me info on the serial numbers? I'd like to see if/where they are from a timeframe perspective, love the early guns with the fish-hook hammer.
Regards,
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04-13-2013, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebago Son
With regard to the "Fishhook" or "Sculpted" hammer, I think that a few escaped even later than the 50's. The lower gun here is a model marked 10-dash-something-or-other well into the 60's. I've had it a while and considering that I bought it from a non-aficionado, I believe it is as built.
Drew
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Drew, you're killing me....
Those two RB M&P's are fantastic.... love them. The early post-war M&P's with round butt and fish-hook hammers are very special guns...
Thanks for posting that pair...
P.S., notice I didn't say "nice pair", always was cautious about saying that in an open forum
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04-13-2013, 07:48 PM
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I'd feel obliged to send the S/Ns to you, Sir. The top was ISP. Don't think the non-relieved stocks are factory, but just my thoughts.
Try to add some other ones as time permits. Your collection, as with everyone else who may just have one, is a collection of true craftsmanship. Reminds me of the story of the Russians shooting Mosin Nagants for practice...
Last edited by YeshuaIsa53; 04-13-2013 at 07:50 PM.
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04-13-2013, 09:04 PM
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Really enjoyed your post it was very informative. I like the fact that you decided to collect guns that others had no or little intrest in. Its kinda like collecting revolvers as most of the gun nuts I see in local shops want black plastic bottom feeders. Thank God for them they leave the revolvers for us old school six gun lovers. So next time your in a local shop and you see one of these guys handling a black pistol tell em
that is deffinatly you and you better get two of them, One for each hand.....
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04-13-2013, 11:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmithNut
Bud Jr,
Nice pic, for sure. The top gun is fantastic, is it one of the Combat Masterpiece guns for Missouri? Are you referring to Lyle Larkworthy? He had some fine Law Enforcement guns and I recall him owning one of the 5" Combat Masterpiece models. The other two are great guns as well, if you don't mind, would you send me info on the serial numbers? I'd like to see if/where they are from a timeframe perspective, love the early guns with the fish-hook hammer.
Regards,
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Yes, it was Lyle Larkworthy. Almost bought a Kansas City Masterpiece from him, but I frowned on the condition. That ISP 5" was sent with the original box, btw. I'll look to see if I have any letters for them, too. Have another Pre 14 I know of, too.
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04-14-2013, 12:19 AM
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I couldn't stand it any longer. Took this baby out for a run with 50 rounds.
It was sold to me (where do they come up with all these stories) as a salesman's personal gun. Haven't had it lettered, but it was nickeled at the factory. Gold bead makes it a delight to shoot with my tired eyes.
It will be shot more often. http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...MG_0870001.jpg
A RB full lug I had a pic of without factory grips, but they were on the gun when I purchased it. Sorry: bad link.
Will attempt more later
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04-14-2013, 08:11 AM
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SmithNut, the four screw 1957 Pre Model 14 is just an awesome gun.
I know you are keeping records and such. Which guns would you like serial numbers for. I have a few more 14s here and there.
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Tags
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357 magnum, combat masterpiece, extractor, k frame, k22, k38, lock, m14, masterpiece, military, model 10, model 14, model 15, performance center, presentation, roper, rosewood, round butt, screwdriver, serrated, serrations, speedloader, spegel, target masterpiece, thumbpiece |
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