Was this a factory option or just aftermarket? In todays dollars, what would the rib add valuewise when comparing 2 guns of equal age and condition?

__________________
Miss Buddies crsides & fat tom

As far as I know, King sights were always an aftermarket. I have a 38 M&P that was shipped in 1948 and delivered directly to King's in San Francisco. King's then put the Super Police Night Sight package on the pistol and sold it. I'm sure that more were done by the owners of the gun then sent directly to King's to do, but I am not sure.

As far as value goes, it's all in the eyes of the beholder. I really don't know how a King's ribbed sight would affect the value. If it was me, I would think it would bring a bit more money, but some people like their guns to be totally stock.

What did the Super Police Night Sight package entail? I would assume that since this gun did not actually leave the factory with the King rib, it would not letter as having it. It would be cool if it did though.

While we are doing this, post your pics of guns with King ribs. I realize that there are some in archived threads, but many of the pics have been deleted or removed.

__________________
Miss Buddies crsides & fat tom

I don't have one and wish I did. My dream would be to have a prewar .38/44 Outdoorsman so equipped, and with thumbrest Ropers as well. A .38 M&P Target model with a King rib sight would also fit in my safe.

I would expect the sight to add at least 10-15% to the value of the gun alone, and I wouldn't be surprised if the owner asked more.

I also know some people think these are ugly monstrosities. That's fine -- the reduced competition will keep the price from rising higher for those of us who like them.

__________________
David Wilson

Here we go...
Don


The front sight is a King red bead w/reflector base.
Rear sight is a King U-notch/white outline.

__________________
OGCA Life
NRA Life

So: wanna sell it?

I had a mental image of that gun in my mind when I composed my message, but I had forgotten who posted it. Thanks for taking the hint.

I forget -- is your gun prewar or transitional? Not that it matters; it's a beauty in either case.

__________________
David Wilson

K-22 Outdoorsman
King Super Target Rib
Cockeyed Hammer
Roper Grips
S.D. Myres Holster---





King ribs were aftermarket additions.
Most King Sights seen on S&W's are aftermarket, the notable exception being Reg Mags.

The "Super Police night sights" usually consisted of milling the 1/2 moon off an M&P type gun and installing a gold or ivory bead. The fixed rear notch was machined into a slightly larger U with a white outline.

I don't think King ordered many, if any, guns from S&W merely to convert them and then sale them from inventory. Of course it is possible that customers ordered a gun from King, and King then ordered the gun to modify. We do know customers sometimes ordered guns from S&W, and had them shipped directly to King for custom work. I have seen guns that lettered that way.

__________________
Regards,
Lee Jarrett

HI
here is a 1926 3th model that is king sighted it is as new unfired except from the factory.
I also have king sighted guns in all 44 models from the triple lock thru the
model 21. they will be in my display at the annual meeting.

jim fisher.

David,
The gun shipped in July of 1937.
Went (along with three others) to the King Sight Co., San Francisco.
Roy thinks King did the modifications before selling the guns.
This one went back to S&W in the mid-60's for a pretty thorough rebuild and a first-rate carbona refinish.
It has a few postwar (replacement) parts...
and a v e r y light s.a. trigger!
Glad you find it pleasing.
Don

__________________
OGCA Life
NRA Life

Don
Was the above information, including it going back for a refinish, in a S&W letter or did you figure it out from dates on the frame? Also, would it be assumed that King only did the external modifications or would they have done action work too? Thanks.

__________________
Miss Buddies crsides & fat tom

boykinip,
Most of the information came from the factory letter, some from conversation with Roy and David Carroll.
King did hammers, action work, and custom target grips, as well as the add-ons like the rib.
Somewhere around here I have a D.W. King catalog featuring all the handguns (Colt, S&W) as well as the long guns they sold.
It's from the late 1930's, and even includes the Registered Magnum.
A buyer could purchase a bone-stock gun from King, or the accessorized version...almost any way they wanted it.
Don

__________________
OGCA Life
NRA Life

Love seeing those pictures of the King revolvers! Very, very nice!

Might as well show the 1917 Kings Target that was an Air force Colonels. after some careful inspection of the gun it was speculated by those more in the know than me that the Mods were done at the Factory.



here is an old Triple lock that was coverted aftermarket probably by Kings

Very nice 1917 and TL. Did you get the 1917 lettered?

__________________
Miss Buddies crsides & fat tom

Dan,

What a beautiful revolver, King's really had the stuff to doll up those pre-war Smiths!

Could you post more pictures of this 1917, I almost missed the trigger guard..... WOW!

This is one of the guns I had to sell after my house fire last year But i know where it is and who knows maybe some day I will get it back

Here are the rest of the pictures I have of it

What does the rolling say on the side of the barrel?

__________________
Miss Buddies crsides & fat tom

Dan,
Very interesting.
That 1917 is probably a post war gun. Did it have the modern hammer block?

__________________
Regards,
Lee Jarrett

Lee,

I cant remember, I'll see if I cant get Clem M. to bring it to the SWCA meeting next month.

Dan

handejector, are those genuine Walt Ropers on your K-22? That's an unusual style with the "widow's peak" at the bottom like that.

Hello
King made some wonderful looking Sight packages. A company that came after them was called The Micro Sight Corp.. I have heard that they stole some of King's ideas and Patents and were eventually forced out of Business for doing so. Shown is a Second series .455 Hand eejct re-chambered in .45 Colt Caliber. it shipped in 1916 and has been converted with a Micro Sight Corp. adjustable Rear sight and Very High Front sight blade...

Kurt, if I knew you had one of those I completely forgot about it. Here's mine, 73778 (July 1916), .45 Colt (converted by planing the recoil shield, not the back of the cylinder), refinished, Micro sight package. I never had the original stocks, however.



When you get one of those large-block rear sights on the gun, the front sight needs to reach for the stratosphere. The front sight profiles on our guns are different, but otherwise...

To honor the original purpose of the thread, I'm hoping to connect with a King Super Target at some point. I have a few guns with King reflector sights, or other maker bead sights and King white-outline round bottom rear sight leaves, but haven't yet managed to find the Holy Grail of King sights.

__________________
David Wilson

I found this online and thought it was interesting. Can't believe he did not show pictures though.

__________________
Miss Buddies crsides & fat tom

Here is what the Super Police Night Sights consist of. It was shipped from the factory in 1948 to the King's Gun Sight Co. with the standard sights.



The addition on the white half moon rear sight. It is milled out and the white paint added.

to all the people showing their king guns, all are beautiful. it took a serious target shooter with some extra money back in the day to have these done. how many of you have shot them and how do they perform as compared to factory configuration? for those who look for these, do you usually see high condition guns with the king mods? i would think most guys would be quite proud of them and take extra care in their use.

well mine, I just got it a few weeks ago..but..I've been shooting it when ever i can...probally close to 500 rounds so far.. performance wise it's hard to say..I might shoot it a little better than my K.38 but, it all depends on the day and how well I'm doing...

the way it handles is just ... different... the weights more, not really ballanced but towards the muzzle,, but not really.... kinda hard to explain.. it just feels "right"..

as for condition of other Kings I've seen.....I haven't. this is the first one I've ever seen in person. ( I had to have it )

the condition of mine when I got it was used...well used...action was as smooth as I had ever felt on a S&W.. lock up & timeing was perfect.. blueing was almost gone....LOL...

this little puppy had been around the block a few times..handled enough that the finish had been removed but never abused..

who ever had mine made up, used it and from the looks used it well.. and I'm glad they did....
when it first came home..

little bit of blueing wear...

perazzi,
In answer to your question about actually shooting a King Super Target...
I bought mine to (occasionally) shoot.
It gets a lot of attention at the range.
The action is real smooth.
I figured the gun would make me a pretty darn good bullseye shooter.
The gun prints high (with both 148 gr wadcutters and 158 gr lrn's.)
Sights are so small I can't see them very well.
Truthfully, my plain old 38/44 OD's and the Colt OM's outshoot this puppy.
Still, all in all a beautiful gun.
Glad I have it.
It sits in the safe (:>)
Don

__________________
OGCA Life
NRA Life

There is a beautiful K-22 Outdoorsman with a King Super Target Rib in the Missouri Cabela's. The serial number is very low; it would have been only the 26th OD off the line in 1931.

Yes, I went after it. No, I didn't get it. It's on layaway for someone else. The item number is 1669652 for those who want to search for it. It seems to have been refinished (star after the serial number), but if so it was a beautiful job.

__________________
David Wilson

I don't currently have a King Super Target.

I do have this old doggie with a Half Rib.
5 inch Mod 1926.
Red insert Patridge
Pachyderm grips

__________________
Regards,
Lee Jarrett

That is one high front sight, how does it shoot?

__________________
Miss Buddies crsides & fat tom

There are alot of neat things in the King Gunsight Catalog.

I thought the tubular magazine idea was really wild. Three different weights changing the balance of the gun, from 3 different metals, mercury (probably illegal now), steel, and aluminum. Has anbody seen one of these?



Was this the first .22 conversion kit? I wonder how well it works. I have seen conversions for autos, never for a revolver.



King seemed to be way ahead of his time. Lots of ideas, but since the company went out of business, it makes me wonder if the ideas worked as he intended them to.

__________________
Miss Buddies crsides & fat tom

I own several of the Colt-King Super Target Woodsman pistols and they work exactly like D.W. King (and target shooters of the day) wanted them to. I published an article a couple of years ago about them for the Colt Collectors Association.

Regards,
Kevin Williams

__________________
Kevin Williams SWCA1649 HF208

I saw a 2nd Model HE 44spl at a gunshow a while back that looked everything in the world like a King Super Target; rib, reflector front sight, hammer, etc. but there wasn't a King mark on it anywhere!!! The gun was pretty decent, had a factory refinish star and K frame grips on it. Looking back on it I should have paid the $650 the guy was asking for it.

They generally aren't marked except for a tiny stamp on the sights which is easy to overlook and/or often buffed off if the gun has been refinished.

__________________
Kevin Williams SWCA1649 HF208

Kevin
That is a great gun. If you have a picture, I would like to see what the weights look like. We would love to see a copy of your article too.

__________________
Miss Buddies crsides & fat tom

S&W 32WCF King Super Target:

IIRC, there were 3 major outfits building high end adjustable sights for target use, King, Micro, and Triangle. You see virtually identical (mechanically) versions of all 3 on .45 hardball guns from the late pre-War period through about the '60s. As memory serves, King started first with a variety of sights back to the WW I period give or take, and Micro outlived Triangle by a little as the popularity of formal bulls eye shooting waned. If you look at the 3 side by side, you can see an awful lot of similarity, but it might be a matter of "form follows function." BTW, didn't Ruger use Micro sights on their adjustable sighted guns for a while until they started making their own??

Froggie

With the closeup of the "Cock-eyed" hammer I am glad to see that King was willing to release something with a booger on it. Its a good weld job, just not the degree of perfection I would have expected. I owned a King Super Target Colt Officer's Special and am still kicking myself for trading it off, it did not have the cock-eyed hammer.

Froggie,I'm pretty sure you're right. I know I got a Micro sight from E-bay that was supposed to be for a Ruger Mark 1 and it worked out fine.
gagunner

colt either used micro or a very close copy on their postwar adj sight guns. starting after the coltmaster rear sight period.

I've seen or owned all three of the sights mentioned on semi-auto pistols, and decided to do a bit more research... but if you have thought about getting anything useful on the subject out of Stroebel's sight book (the "SCSW" of sights) don't bother... it aint there!

Anyway, I have little to no info about the King rib assembly for the revolver, and that's what really got me interested when I saw them in a couple of threads here. You guys just have to stop showing me all this neat stuff that brings lust to my heart! I can't stand it.

Froggie

From an early flattop ruger 44
My MkI targer ruger 22 auto has Micro sight also.



Charlie

They're not S&W's, but both of these Colt's wear Micro Sights. The first an Army Special sporting a pair of Sanderson grips as well as a Micro hammer. The second a 1917 with what I believe to be Hurst or Farrant grips. The frame is cut for the grips on the 1917. It still shoots good, but is an ugly duckling for sure. I've been thinking about having it hard chromed or perhaps satin nickeled.

Well, this thread has lain dormant for a while, and now I have a question to be added to it. What few pix I have been able to find of the rear of the King ribs around the actual sight blade look as though they are used on a target sighted gun and utilize the little niche that S&W used for the elevation nut to anchor the rear of the rib and to make the King Sight's adjustment work. Is this the case or is it an optical delusion on my part? I'm still searching but I wonder, does anyone have a King full rib on a Bekeart Model or a 22/32 HFT? I'd love to see pix of that one!

TIA ~ Froggie