S&W PRE-17 BRIGHT BLUE FINISH(NEW INFO-12-28-16)

redwagon32 · Jun 21, 2010

I have a 1948 pre-17 with the S&W bright blue finish. It came to me without a box and the factory letter merely says blue finish (although I didn't think at the time to ask specifically whether there was any mention of special order bright blue.) The 1951 Gun Digest is the earliest mention I know of for special order bright blue for a K22 at about 10% added cost. I am wondering how unusual bright blue is for a K22 of this era. How much might it add to the value of a 98% revolver over the standard matte blue? The gun shows no evidence of refinishing.

New Info as of 12-28-16
Thanks to Roy Jinks-I have new info on this revolver showing that it was special ordered in bright blue and with original target grips. He reissued a letter to me upon my written request and found the new info somewhere. I have attached a photo of the new letter and of the gun showing the almost mirror brightness of the finish(one shows the reflection of my camera). Unfortunately, by the time I acquired it, the original target grips were replaced with much later ones and I won't be able to see if the original target grips were serial numbered to the gun(unlikely) or if it was shipped in a slightly larger gold box to fit the target grips.

handejector · Jun 21, 2010

Bright blue on a 48 gun is possible, but highly improbable without being a special order.

It would be wise to post pics here- good ones, especially of the grip frame without the grips.

au2183 · Jun 21, 2010

I agree with handejector. I have 2 17's from 1948. The early one has a single address line, the other a 4 address line. Both have a matte finish. It is my understanding, mostly from this forum, that the matte finish was standard in this era, but a glossy finish was available via special order. It is entirely possible that a distributor ordered a quantity of them in glossy finish. The one thing you can be assured of with S&W is that almost anything is possible, no matter how improbable!
Post some pictures of that fine gun and let us help you determine the truth. Please post pictures including both sides of the grip frame without the grip.

gunlovingirl · Jun 21, 2010

I also have a one line address K22 from '48. It's matte blue. Would love to have a genuine gloss blue!

PattonTime · Jun 21, 2010

pre 17

I too have a glossy finish 1948 pre 17 Target Masterpiece.
I have posted pictures without grips and was shown that I have markings that "may" indictate a factory refinish. My understanding was that this was fairly popular by the late 50's.
I do not recall all the markings , but I am sure some one remembers what
to expect.
The lettering is all super sharp and it is very nicely polished and remains in about 97%-98% condition.
Another feature it has that I like is a red bead front sight.
It looks like a gold bead type , but its red and easy to pickup

hsguy · Jun 21, 2010

I have a 1948 K-22 with a bright blue finish. It came with the original box which is marked "Bright" in grease pencil on the bottom of the box along with the serial number.

Here are a couple of photos of the bottom of the box.

b3337 · Jun 22, 2010

That's what I love about this forum, I learn something new everyday.I didn't know about the bright blue finish or the box being marked ''Bright''.

redwagon32 · Jun 22, 2010

This is my first attempt to post photos so I am hopeful it will be successful. The photos show unconnected left side butt markings of an R and a B as well as a double stamped B on the bottom of the barrel. I realize that the R and B could be Refinish Blue and that the B by the barrel serial could also be a factory refinish mark. I am assuming that the first under barrel B stamp was not deep enough and it was NOT an attempt to put BB for Bright Blue! The underside of the extractor only shows the last 4 digits of the serial. The only other unusual marking is on the butt and appears to show the very beginnings of an attempt to make a hole for a lanyard ring between the K and the remainder of the serial.

If the previous poster will confirm that his revolver does not have these markings, that pretty much settles it for me. The blueing on this revolver does show the patina of a 50+ year old revolver and the stampings are crisp. It was shipped on June 9, 1948 to the Union Hardware & Metal Co. in Los Angeles, CA. I am still not sure how unusual a bright blue finish on a late 40's and early 50's K22 is so I'll ask another question. Based on these markings, when do you think the factory reblued it?

redwagon32 · Jun 23, 2010

Another attempt to post photos

Hammerdown · Jun 23, 2010

Hello redwagon32
I noticed in the under barrel picture that there is an over strike of the guns original serial number being the last number now being the number 6 over the original serial number strike being 9. That would certainly indicate the guns barrel may have been replaced or worked on, but it does not make sense that the factory would over stamp a serial number like that over the original one?

I know the Other K-22 shown in bright blue finish is supposed to be from 1948 as well, But it was my Impression that all 1948 Guns came out of the factory with the new Four Line address instead of the single line address that supposedly ended in 1947.

According to MR Jinks's serial number sequece for 1948 of the K-Frame serial stamped in 1948 being - K-18732--K-73121 your revolver certainly falls into that area and I surmise it shipped in Possibly February or March of that year due to high production back then, so perhaps your's and Phil's gun's were left over 1947 frames that got serial stamped and sent out in 1948 still having the One line address..

I guess at this point ,only a $50.00 Factory letter would tell how yours left the factory, but the mystery still remains of just why it has it's under Barrel serial number Over struck with a different number, Than the Guns Original serial number ?

redwagon32 · Jun 23, 2010

The lighting makes it look that way but in person it is clear that the last digit is a 9 with an earlier strike of a 6 or a 9 die held reversed. Since the worker also double struck the B, maybe he was just not feeling strong that day! The factory letter simply says that the finish was blue. Hoping to have High Standard Guy chime in.

hsguy · Jun 23, 2010

redwagon32, I will pull the gun out tomorrow and look under the grips to check the markings. If I recall the gun shipped in March of 1948, I will check the letter for the particulars.

hsguy · Jun 24, 2010

Here are the photos of the grip frame on my gun, don't see anything unusual. The serial number of the gun is K 19750 and it shipped on May 27, 1948 to Miami. No mention in the letter of the bright finish.

stumper · Jun 24, 2010

I was always under the impression that the bright blueing of post war guns didn't start until 1955?

redwagon32 · Jun 24, 2010

Thank you, HSGuy! Is the stamp on the left side of the butt an R or a B? I assume there is nothing under the barrel except for the serial.

Stumper-the 1951 Gun Digest is the first mention I know of that bright blue was available for a pre-17

hsguy · Jun 24, 2010

redwagon32 said:
Thank you, HSGuy! Is the stamp on the left side of the butt an R or a B? I assume there is nothing under the barrel except for the serial.

Stumper-the 1951 Gun Digest is the first mention I know of that bright blue was available for a pre-17

You are welcome. That is a R on the frame which I assume to be an inspector or fitters mark. Nothing unusual under the barrel.

stumper · Jun 24, 2010

Interesting, a few years earlier than I thought. Maybe 1955 was the year that everything was changed to bright??

handejector · Jun 24, 2010

Hammerdown said:
I know the Other K-22 shown in bright blue finish is supposed to be from 1948 as well, But it was my Impression that all 1948 Guns came out of the factory with the new Four Line address instead of the single line address that supposedly ended in 1947.

According to MR Jinks's serial number sequece for 1948 of the K-Frame serial stamped in 1948 being - K-18732--K-73121 your revolver certainly falls into that area and I surmise it shipped in Possibly February or March of that year due to high production back then, so perhaps your's and Phil's gun's were left over 1947 frames that got serial stamped and sent out in 1948 still having the One line address..

The order for the 4 line address was issued a few months into 48 according to Roy, and took a while to work thru the system.

redwagon32 said:
The lighting makes it look that way but in person it is clear that the last digit is a 9 with an earlier strike of a 6 or a 9 die held reversed. Since the worker also double struck the B, maybe he was just not feeling strong that day! The factory letter simply says that the finish was blue. Hoping to have High Standard Guy chime in.

Number sets only have one stamp for a 6 and 9- you turn it over. Not too hard to imagine turning it the wrong way now and then, even though they probably had the stamps racked in a straight row with a separate stamp for a 6 and a 9 just to keep it simple- that's how I would set it up. Still, turning one the wrong way is not hard to imagine.

stumper said:
Interesting, a few years earlier than I thought. Maybe 1955 was the year that everything was changed to bright??

Pretty much correct.
We see the high polish phased in on all the Masterpieces right at the end of the 5 screw era- in the 250-260,000's.

The earliest All Model Circulars after the war list the 357 Magnum as having "S&W Blue". These are the AMC's from 45 and 46. They very soon changed the AMC's to show the Magnum in "Bright Blue". Apparently, they decided the cadilac of the line shouldn't be put out in satin blue. They MAY have made some Mags in satin, but I know the Transition Mags I have seen were all Bright, so we know they were doing SOME high polish in the late 40's.

handejector · Jun 24, 2010

hsguy said:
You are welcome. That is a R on the frame which I assume to be an inspector or fitters mark. Nothing unusual under the barrel.

I think you guys have hit upon something significant here-

That large B
I don't recall seeing that size and that font in that location.
I HAVE to wonder if THAT denotes "Bright".
Are you SURE that is an R on your gripframe?
Is there the same B on back of the cyl?
Every time I have ever seen a B under a barrel or in a shroud that simply denoted "Blue", it has been the same size as the numbers, NOT larger, and it was a plain font with no seriphs.

Here is the barrel flat on my K-22, which is the standard satin finish-

hsguy · Jun 24, 2010

handejector said:
I think you guys have hit upon something significant here-

That large B
I don't recall seeing that size and that font in that location.
I HAVE to wonder if THAT denotes "Bright".
Are you SURE that is an R on your gripframe?
Is there the same B on back of the cyl?
Every time I have ever seen a B under a barrel or in a shroud that simply denoted "Blue", it has been the same size as the numbers, NOT larger, and it was a plain font with no seriphs.

Here is the barrel flat on my K-22, which is the standard satin finish-

Lee, I will look again tonight or tomorrow. I should know better than to trust my eyes. When you see me in Tucson I will be the one with the big magnifying glass.

S&W PRE-17 BRIGHT BLUE FINISH(NEW INFO-12-28-16)

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