I guess I'm on a lucky streak with auctions, but I would trade all the good fortune there -- and all my guns, too -- if I could get some luck for my wife and younger daughter and their serious health problems.

Recently I have been placing multiple auction bids for guns that interest me at or just below the low end of a reasonable value range. Most of the guns will not come to me, of course, but on a random basis the lack of interest from others will let me pick up a gun (hard to guess in advance which of several it might be) at an extremely reasonable price. That has happened four or five times in the last month, much to my surprise. In this particular case it may have helped that the gun was misidentified as a "Pre-War 32/22 Double Action Target Revolver," whatever that might be.

K-22 Outdoorsman, 634373. About 95% condition. All parts number together, including stocks. Gold bead front sight, single elevation adjustment screw on the rear sight. I haven't yet asked for a date from the company, but it ought to be not much later than June or July 1931. [EDITED TO ADD: Shipment confirmed in June 1931.]















The earliest K-22 Outdoorsman models were numbered in the 632000 range. There was another spate of them in the 634000 range, of which this is one. Only a few hundred .22 ODs were made with the gold bead sight, and then in late 1931 the stainless steel "brilliant" bead became standard for the model.

I got a couple of old Colt target revolvers on the random low bid basis, too. One's a Police Positive .22, the other a .38 Officers Model Target. Both predate the 1930s. (I'll post them on some other forum. )

__________________
David Wilson

David, Nice catch! I track bids on several of the better auctions and I've noticed the same trend over the last year, or so. Winning bids on many guns like yours are at the low end of what they used to bring. I assume it's the effect of the economy. High dollar rarities are holding their own, as buyers there are wealthy enought that the economy is not a worry to them. The same trend is also obvous in collector cars. I watched Barrett-Jackson's Orange County Collector Car auction last evening on TV and many nice cars were going for 1/2 or 2/3rds what they would have brought 2 or 3 yrs. ago. If Lee sees this, maybe he will cut his asking prices 50% on the guns on his sale table at Tucson! Ed #15

David
Great find on an early Outdoorsman. Having the knowledge to correctly identify it and getting it at a good price is fantastic. BTW I saw your Colts on that other forum and they look amazing too. Congratulations on your streak and I hope your wife and daughter find good fortune with their health problems. Good thoughts, from the east coast, sent their way.

__________________
Miss My Buddy crsides!!

David,
Good pick-up!! Maybe a little earlier the June/July. More like May/June. 634,2xx shipped 05/??/31 and 634,55x shipped 06/10/31. My DB shows the shipping dates pretty much in serial order at that time. (Of course, it could have been in the back of the vault. Let me know when you letter it and get a date. I'm also interested where it went.)

__________________
Dean
SWCA #680 SWHF #446

Great find!
Sometimes you are buying a pig in a poke though. I've got a .22 Combat Masterpiece coming from an auction with only two mediocre pictures to go by. Good price by current standards, but I'm wondering what's going to show up.
Your's is definitely a score! As shows in your great photos.

Very nice! Some day I'm going to get lucky and own one of those. My prayers for your wife and daughter.

__________________
Misty

Very nice gun. Congratulations.

For comparison, K22 # 63453x shipped On June 17, 1931.

Bob

Thanks, Bob. I will letter this revolver later this year after Roy Jinks has had a chance to dig himself out from under the current backlog. It will be interesting to see where it went in addition to getting an actual shipping date on it.

__________________
David Wilson

David, may your family find good health and by grace be blessed.

You have a good eye for fine guns, luck probably has less to do with it as knowing what to bid on and how much to put in it. I enjoy your pics and always learn something from your posts.

NICE Outdoorsman! Always "good property"!

Gail

my Outdoorsman also has the gold bead, do not know what the ship date is, the serial number is 636XXX I believe it shipped sometime in 1932 have not had it lettered though so can't be sure. I read some ware the first 500 had the gold bead after that they were stainless

aquagear,
636,xxx more than likely shipped July(ish) (mid) 1931.
If you letter it, please let me know.

__________________
Dean
SWCA #680 SWHF #446

+1 to what GF wrote. Prayers and best wishes to you and your family.

Beautiful gun; congratulations and thanks for posting. -S2

Nice revolver, I love all of these guns and this one is a true beauty. My best wishes to your family.

This is my reply to another post about an early K-22.
Checkered walnut grips; delivered to Mr. Joseph E. Gaudreau, Springfield Police Department, Springfield, MA (this revolver was provided to Mr. Gaudreau on an advertising account at no charge and picked up at the S&W factory per Victor Wesson); this was the 20th K-22 First Model serial numbered. Now with factory added 4-inch barrel, numbered to gun; sideplate engraved ''1930 PRESENTED TO JOSEPH A GAUDREAU BY VICTORY WESSON''; with ''star'' (*) and date ''5 47'' on butt frame

__________________
Don Mundell

great looking gun, its my hope to find one with the gold bead sight in the future, and we will pray for your family.

David,
Prayers will be said for your wife and daughter. I hope it is nothing too serious.
I too have won a couple auctions lately on what I considered to be low ball bids. One is a 1948 single line address K-22. Yours is a very nice example of an early Outdoorsman. Enjoy it!

Just to add best wishes to your family and that S/N 632396 shipped Apr. 8, 1931.

Regards,

Tam 3

David,

Good eye in spotting that K22. It appears to be a really nice one.

I also hope things improve for your wife and daughter.

Best Regards,

Jerry

I've got one of these with # 632519 that shipped on 3/28/31.

__________________
KSCowboy

Tam 3 and KSCowboy,

What is the front sight on yours? The standard Call Gold bead, or something else? I have listings of a couple from that serial range that have Marble Ivory beads.

__________________
Dean
SWCA #680 SWHF #446

deadin,

I'll have to take a look as I don't remember about the front sight at the moment. I'll dig it out tonight and maybe get a couple pics also.

__________________
KSCowboy

deadin,

I checked the front sight and it is a gold bead. Forgot to take my camera home from the office to get any pictures.

Haven't shot this baby in a while so left it out to shoot on the 4th of July.

__________________
KSCowboy

I also have a Outdoorsman with a gold dot front sight. It is serial number 638xxx

Can anyone tell me when it shipped? Also I have heard they only made a few hundred of the gold dot fron sights. However the SN spread seems not to back this. Anyone know how many were made?

Thanks
Tony

638818, 638909, and 638945 all shipped in 1932. The closest # below 638000 in the database is 635936 and it shipped in 1931.

__________________
Dennis
SWCA #2409, SWHF #353

The gold bead front sight was indeed standard for the first several months of production, after which the stainless "brilliant" bead became standard. But you could always order a gold bead front sight, and that probably explains the gold beads you see on some 22 ODs from later in the 1930s. I'd guess there are about 10-20 guns guns with the brilliant bead for every one with the gold bead. But that's just an impression. I don't have stats to back that up.

__________________
David Wilson

I have a listing for 636,259 shipping on 07/18/1931.

The aforementioned 638,818 is the earliest stainless bead I have on my database. I have it as shipping in April 1932.
After that gold beads just show up occasionally.

__________________
Dean
SWCA #680 SWHF #446

634xxx range were shipping mid 1931, 638xxx shipped Nov. 1931 with gold bead. My guess is your 636xxx is mid way or Sept 1931. First yr gun.


Charlie

Missed the earlier question. #632396 has a King red bead reflector ramp sight.

Regards,

Tam 3

Thanks for all the info guys. I am going to keep my gold dot sight for sure. It will go nice with my K22 and 17...

David, very nice pick-up. As stated previously i believe your knowledge
precludes the luck factor when finding these treasures. I'm new to the game and am focusing on the 1960-late 70's S&W wheelguns of which
i have a small amount of knowledge. Love to see and hear your posts
of the pre-war stuff. I'm learning. Also will say a prayer for your wife
and daughters recovery. Hope it's nothing serious.


Best Regards, Chuck

__________________
They hold no Quarter

David,
Positive thoughts and prayers sent your way from New York.
Cap

IIRC the gold bead was standardized by order in Jan '31 and changed to the SS bead as standard Nov '31.

__________________
Jim
S&WCA #819

David, I'm quite concerned to hear about your wife and daughter. Although we've never met face to face, I feel from our many forum and e-mail exchanges that we have become good friends, and as a friend I truly feel for you... you and your family will be in my prayers.

As for the latest spate of acquisitions, congratulations indeed. It appears that your careful studies of the history of S&W, the market, and the intersection of the two are helping you make your own luck in this area. May your successes continue, especially since so many of us vicariously live them through you.

Best regards,
Charlie the Frog

My thoughts and prayers to your family.

I have #638438 with gold sight and it shipped to Dimond Hall Co. Honolulu, Territory of Hawii 2 Sept, 1931.

__________________
Mike
USMCR 84-87, USAF 87-07

Congratulations on this handsome acquisition. As time and inclination allow, we would love to have a range report of how it performs with standard velocity ammunition. Hopefully the gold bead will be a plus at the range. With your excellent writing, such a report would be a pleasure to savor.

Please accept prayers from this quarter, also.

Regards,

Dyson

Mine is 6361XX, with a stainless bead. I don't get letters any more
since Colt got greedy and ruined it. I guess I was spoiled by Marty
Huber years ago when You could get 'em for $10. They did it for "good will". Smith and Cody are still reasonable. Colt wants up to $350 and
beyond, and you get: "shipped to Simmons Hardware, with 100 other
guns in the same shipment" "Big Deal"
nj

Confused right now. My 1931 Gold Bead 22-38 is 63241x was cited by Roy J as August. That is about 2000 lower but "later?" Now, Roy gave that date by phone...perhaps I need the letter.

After guns were assembled and sent to inventory, they would be taken from inventory for shipment in any old order. There was no "first in, first out" principle governing shipment. It is possible for guns manufactured in an early production run to ship long after guns put together in a different production run.

__________________
David Wilson

This New Yorker sends his as well.

This is actually an older thread. I appreciate the good wishes of forum members. The situation is that my wife has Alzheimer's Disease, now quite advanced. She seems to be generally content and appears to exist in threat-free and anger-free space, so the situation there is as good as it can be. My daughter has autoimmune hepatitis, which flares up and retreats. At the moment the condition seems to be in remission, but the immunosuppressive drugs she must take sometimes go hard on her. She is smart and tough, and with her wicked sense of humor she is handling the situation way better than I would.

__________________
David Wilson

Colokeb,

David is exactly right. Smith & Wesson, unlike any other manufacturer that I have ever heard of, seemed not to use their serial numbers for inventory control (STRANGE!!!). In the early days, once they stamped the number on it, it seemed to only be recorded when the gun was actually shipped. So when guns were put in the vault, they were randomly pulled to fill orders. Consequently, in guns that were slow sellers, it isn't uncommon to see a gun shipped decades after it was made.

Later, the serial number was stamped because of the Federal requirement to do so.

navaho jack,

If you made your post in the Colt Forum you might get some objections. Here we will all agree with you. But, your Outdoorsman certainly deserves the investment of $50 from Roy Jinks to learn a little of its early history.

Regarding your comment about Marty Huber, I have a letter in my files from an even earlier Colt Historian, R. H. Wagner, dated June 2, 1961. I requested the history of two SAA's that belonged to my maternal and paternal grandfathers. The cost of the letter on the two guns was $5.00. As a post script, Mr. Wagner apologized and said that he regretted that because of the increased requests he was forced to raise the cost for future requests to $3.00 per gun.

Think of it this way. In 1961 you could buy 1st generation Single Action Army Colts all day for $60 and a letter on it cost $3. Today a SAA might cost $7000 and the letter cost $350. Same 20:1 ratio.

Bob

David,

I just saw the post that you made while I was writing my last post. So sorry to learn of the problems that your family is enduring. I can only imagine the stress that having two members with such severe inflictions must place on the rest of you. Please take our condolences and know that our thoughts and prayers are with you all.

Bob

David:

Just saw this thread. My prayers to you and yours.
Dave

Could my 22 just have well been pulled to make it into a 38?

My well-wishes and prayers for the three of you.

Mind telling me how much a first model K-22 OD with gold bead and red box in about 96% condition is worth? Box is in much better condition.

I have no idea what 96% condition means. Most of us tend to round condtion ratings to 95%, then 98%, and then very very few are described as near perfect. You've got to know the person who is rating the gun and how they rate other guns before it starts to have any meaning. I've seen guns that I rate as maybe 90% described as 99+%. And we even had the west coast purveyor who rated guns at 95.7% No system is worth a hoot if its not repeatable by others with no interest in the transaction.

Now to values. It looks like really nice 1st Model K22s (Outdoorsman's guns) are bringing over $1500 in the box. At the OGCA show last week, the cheapest I saw one in its box was $1800. So that should give you a range to expect to pay/get in a deal. Other stuff makes the price go up fast. Like the sight adjuster adds $500 to a grand.

The guns with low numbers (one of mine is at 634,500) seemed to come in what we are now describing as the early box. Its the Maroon box also seen M&Ps shipping in, but with rubber stamps over the centerfire information. Later (one of mine up at 638,000) came in the newer box, again still maroon, but with its own printed inside flyer. A while later you begin to see the familiar red picture box. And the extra screw in the rear sight.

But as observed here earlier, the prices seem to be moving around some. Remember, these guns are now 80 years old. Even the rare 2nd models are now 72. What that seems to indicate is they've almost all gone through several owners so the pristine ones are almost all changing hands from time to time. These are now collectors guns so a person shouldn't expect pricing to make much sense.

__________________
Dick Burg

The .22s had a frame-mounted firing pin. You can make a .38 into a .22, but not the other way around.

__________________
David Wilson

Dick,
Thanks for the box lesson and all. Saw one on an auction site show up last night, red box and gold bead, and had to ask after stumbling into this thread. I'll have to remember about the 95 to 98%: I was just guessing from poor pics. The red box is the oldest I have had, so the others are news to me in a sense with the K-22 OD. Thanks for the input! Bud

Dick, I also appreciate the box info. I have #6346xx with gold bead that shipped in June 1931. It is in a red box but the number on the tape isn't legible so, based on your info, the box must be for a later gun.

Bud, the gun that I described above is what I would describe as 98%. The only faint mar is a very slight thinning of the blue (2mm) on the under side of the barrel where it apparently rested in a rack in someone's safe. Absent that, there are zero defects and would rate a 99%. It came from a well known collector on the forum that I trust and he described the tiny spot to me so I was comfortable in the purchase. I paid $1300 for the gun and excellent red box about 6 years ago. That was probably top dollar at the time but today would be a steal in that condition.

Bob