Nice grips!

Power Burns,
Check out EvilBay and GunBroker. Lanyard loop assemblies are offered there on a regular bases.

__________________
The Wizard

Thank you! I will.

It's and old tale. The cavalry pistol belt never existed. The M1912 pistol belt with sabre ring is a Non Commissioned Officer belt, and it was issued because NCOs were allowed to carry the sabre, even if only during parades. On the opposite side, sabre ring was added to the M1903 cartridge belt just for cavalry use.

Ok this wil probably be sacreligious to the purists, but how do you make a snubbie out of the 1917? Some pictures look like the barrel was just cut off and others look like a barrel replacement. What kind of approx. costs would a gunsmith charge to do the job? Any comments or help would be appreciated. This one looks good.

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I believe that one belongs to whitecoyote, and he had it cut. I could be mistaken.................

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dd884
JMHO-YMMV

A beautiful collection of 1917s . . . many thanks to all for sharing.

Bill Bates,

Am curious if your modified 1917 has a factory date stamp on the frame (left side under stock) and, if so, what it is.

I have a similar Commercial 1917 originally shipped in August 1927 with serial number 179014 (very close to yours) that is also believed to have been factory modified to 45 Colt. It too has a replacement barrel (5 ½”) and cylinder numbered to the gun. Mine is date stamped 7.49 (July 1949) but the curious part is the ejector rod tip . . . it is the late 20 – 30s style rather than the mushroom-shaped tip on all other 1917s I’ve seen and as used on yours.









The more general question is whether S&W made any 1917s originally with the late 20s – 30s style ejector rod tip. Does anyone have one?

Russ

A Brazilian model that seems to have lived a charmed life. Needs a new pair of shoes. Just picked this one up last week at gunshow.

No date stamp under the grips on the left side, which is a bit odd. There is a diamond stamp on the barrel by the serial number, indicating a re-barrel. All the serial numbers match. The head space will not allow .45 acp with moon clips.

It just one old odd revolver that someone converted to .45 Colt the way is should be done. The work may or may not have been done by S&W.

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Bill Bates

Bill,

Thanks for your reply. I'm guessing that the date stamp was applied during some periods and not others, so it probably depends on when it was done. I can't imagine anyone other than the factory would put the diamond replacement symbol and number the barrel to the gun.

If we all support it, one day the S&W Historical Foundation will digitize the factory records . . . including work orders . . . and we'll be able to learn more about who ordered the work and what work was done by the factory.

In the meantime we'll just enjoy these fine "professionally enhanced" jewels.

Thanks again, Russ

This one came home with me this past weekend. It has just the right amount of character on it

Model 1917, made May 1918. I know it's been chromed, but that's the way it is.

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Quick question. Since I haven't fired my 1917 yet, what is the acceptable cylinder end play movement and rotational play? Thanks for any info.

Below, a carried much and shot even more, garden variety U.S. Army Model 1917 ( but sadly, with an old Barrel Bulge ), and, above, the seldom seen, and in this case, fairly early, 'Artillery Model'.

Model of 1917 "Artillery Model"? That is a new one on me. There must be a real good story behind that one.

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The Wizard

My Century imported Brazilian, from the first batch sent south. Its wearing some checkered wood grips from Numrich now. I paid $700 for it and a Colt Woodsman...

I was just being playful.

Although I think they ought to have had an 'Artillery Model' with a longer Barrel...mine is one which had been re-Barreled early on, with a longer Barrel.


I had always thought they should have offered the M1917 in various Barrel Lengths ( say, 2-1/4, to 8-1/2 Inch anyway ) for the Civillian Market, and, even though this one is a done-long-ago re-Barrel, I was very happy to find it and make it my own.


You get another hundred or so FPS with the same Ammunition, and, it just has a nice look and feel of it's own as well.

Thanks to Woad_yurt, I now have a very nice Model 1917.

Numbers match on stocks (written in pencil on right stock?), yoke, barrel, extractor, and of course the butt. There is some corrosion on front of cylinder and in barrel from corrosive ammo, but not enough to turn it down. Bore is very good otherwise with nice lands/grooves. Eagles head proof on barrel, cylinder, & yoke, and ordnance bomb with what looks like a C in the center of the bomb on the frame, & United States Property on bottom of barrel.

I need a little help from some of you Model 1917 experts. First, here's my story:
I am retired US Army and I live in Germany. I am licensed to hunt here, so I am allowed two hanguns (I know, that sounds horrible, doesn't it?). I recently purchased a 619 (so I can purchase one more) and am completely satisfied, but the one S&W that I want that I can't get over here is the new Model 1917. However, I recently came across two original 1917s. One claims to be an original 1920 made 1917 with 85% finish (pictures on the left, 57877) and and a Brazilian contract model (53469), made in 1937 with military finish. The euro to dollar here is horrible and has been for some years and everything is incredibly expensive, so both of these are going for the same amount; $688, which is pretty reasonable even for new guns over here. I can't give much more detail than these pictures, but at first look, what do you experts say? I don't think I could get one any cheaper, in any condition over here. I am thinking that US issue one on the left is probably the one to go for, but don't know enough about what the differences could be to make the price drive selection of the two. It has "US Property" stamped underneath the barrel so I beleive it's issue and not civilian, but I'm guessing those grips are not original? The translation for the site is difficult, I think they state that the grips have "US Property" stamped on them as well, and that the revolver is not "overused". Any ideas?

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I will add one more bit for the non-Brazilian model. According to the translation it has "no foreign markings" and then "US Army Model 1917 and the serial number on the butt (which makes it issue, I'm guessing after looking at the other posts/pictures). There's got to be a good story on how this and the Brazilian one got here!

I am far from a 1917 expert but if I were in your position the choice would be easy. The issue 1917 is much more desirable to me than any Brazilian. No question, particularly since they are the same price. YMMV!

Dave

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RSVN '69-'71
PCSD (Ret)

Thanks Dave, I'm thinking you may be right...I really didn't believe I'd find a non-Brazilian one in Germany. I check this dealer's website about once a week, they've had it about that long, I think, because I had not seen it before.

The 1917 should be wearing the same type smooth grips that are on the Brazilian. The gold medallion grips were on commercial S&Ws from about 1910 to 1920 and are worth a pretty penny all by themselves.

__________________
John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Thanks Gil for the info about the grips. I figured they must have been put on later, because that M-1917 is definately military issue, didn't think those grips could be. However, the grips look old as well. I'm leaning pretty much toward that non-Brazilian model, emailed the dealer today.

The botes I have on hand here, indicate that the Serial Numbers do not make sense for the 1937 Contract Brazillian one to have a lower Number than the M1917 "U.S." Army" one does...nor does the "1920" date make sense for a 53-thousand Number, which would be 1918 mfg.

They made 163,000 of them between Sept 1917, and, Jan'y 1919.

Brazillian Models were supposedly starting at 181,983 - to 207,043, with an additional shipment occuring in the 207,196 - 207989 range in 1946...and some of those do seem to have been clean-up runs of unfinished US Army Models getting finished up for Brazil.


Of the two though, the M1917 US would be the one to have, and, the price you mention is not unreasonable, and is on par with what is usualy asked for those models in that condition over here in the States presently.

The Stocks seen on the "U.S." Model 1917 ion the image you have there, were Civillian ones, used from about 1910 - 1920, and, would tend to be more valuable than same condition Army Issue 'plain' Stocks associated with the M1917.

Thanks for the response Oyeboteb. Sorry for not explaining the photo numbers; those aren't serial numbers, they are only file numbers. The non-Brazilian serial number is 161580, but I don't know the serial number for the Brazilian model. The image shows the Brazilian stamp on the side plate, and you can tell that it has a military grade finish. I have to make a choice pretty quick, but everyone seems to agree that the M1917 "US" model is the better deal. I have requested it from the dealer, now all I have to do is get it on my license, which is quite an ordeal over here. Hopefully, I can post a photo of it in my actual possession in a month or so. The famed German bureaucracy is no joke!

M2,

I'd go for the Brazilian. They are heat treated (at least in theory) and some have the square rear sight notch, which I prefer.

I don't think either gun has their correct grips. The 1920's grips (I think) are quite valuable.

$688 would be sort of high in the US for a Brazilian, it would be quite low for the 1920.

Good luck!


Cat

__________________
Think for yourself.

If I were in your position, I would elect the M1917 U.S. Army Model, and, pass on the Brazil Model.

The former is a more interesting and desireable Arm, which is also a genuine article of the First World War, and, is tacitly understood to have been more carefully made and fitted than were the latter 'Brazillian' Models...even though in theory, their quality ought to have been the same.


If timing and Lock up and Bore are good to very good or excellent, and the finish is the original S & W Blue, even if at 65 percent say, it is certainly well worth what you relay to be the asking price.

It the M1917 US Model were listed on 'Gunbroker', it would sell for what he is asking, or more.

Newbie. I have a brazillian made 1917 45 acp in good shape with no box and with only after market grips that I inherited 15 yrs ago. No photos but good shooter. What is a ballpark price for this revolver? Thank you kindly for any information in advance, I love this site!
Molon Labe Marcus

Thanks again, Oyeboteb, I think that's good advice. The dealer here gave me a description, and it sounds as though it is pretty good condition, 85% blue (original). The German gun dealers are normally pretty good and honest people; most Germans want new guns these days. This dealer specializes in used firearms, so they have a reputation to protect as well. Germans, like Americans, all want auto's these days, and so revolvers are pretty decent deals often. However, I was surprized to see this model, and am really curious to see if I can find out how it may have ended up here. However, the story may not be too exotic; American soldiers have been selling and trading their weapons with the Germans since we occupied it, so it may simply have been sold or even given to a German after WWII. The good news is that Germans are notorious for taking very good care of their weapons, which may have worked to my favor.

I contacted the dealer this morning and closed the deal. Sadly, it will take at least a month to get it on my license, and they can't send it to me until then, but at least I know it won't "get away".

Thanks for your help!

Thanks, Catshooter, as you can see from above post, got the US model. I would get both, but unfortunately this on revolver now puts me at the legal limit for owning handguns (I have a 619 I bought last month). I'm thinking it will be an investment at this point. I'll get a decent picture of it up on this thread as soon as I get it in my grubby little hands. In the meantime, I'll just enjoy the view of all these excellent posts and pictures of other members 1917s and hope mine will look as good!

Hi M2MikeGolf,


Well done!


I am confident you will be very happy with it soon and from then on.


They are very fine Revolvers, and, especially interesting and practical for their particular type of Chambering and the use of the Moon Clips.

Finding one, and being able to afford one, which is in quite good and original condition, is certainly a very special event by my reconning.


The first Gun I ever shot, was my Dad's Model 1917 S & W, when I was eight.

I shot one handed, using WWII Surplus Ammo we would buy, in the 'brown' Box, for I think, $1.00 a Box.


This was like 1961, in Texas.

In retrospect, I am surprised I was able to manage it so well, and, for the report or recoil having not bothered me one bit.

Of course no one wore Ear Protection in those days.

I was a pale, dreamy, slender, small for my age, Book Worm of a Boy, and, I am glad my Dad took me out one day, ran me through the drill for Safety and inspection and protocols, and, let me fire a few dozen rounds.

I was a good student.

The M1917 of course will always remain for me, a very special Revolver.

I suppose you really ought to sell the new one, and, get a WWI production Colt Model of 1911 .45 Automatic, in order to be complete!


If they only allow you two Hand Guns, those two would be aweful hard to beat as a pair.

You would have to join the Colt Forum then, as well.


Lol...

I'm late to this thread....but, here's mine.

"I have a brazillian made 1917 45 acp in good shape with no box and with only after market grips that I inherited 15 yrs ago. No photos but good shooter. What is a ballpark price for this revolver? Thank you kindly for any information in advance, I love this site!"

Welcome to the Forum.

Your revolver was made for the Brazilian military by Smith & Wesson in Springfield, Mass. There were two contracts, one in 1937 and another in 1946. The 1937 built revolvers were made new with flat top frames, while the 1946 revolvers were built on WW I era frames with the round top frames.

Price depends on condition. If you can post pictures, that would be a great help in determining value.

Most of us tend to hang onto inherited guns. They are a link to your past and perhaps your family as well.

__________________
John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Oyebotob,

Thanks for your vote of confidence. I notice most of us have some story of when we were a child that started us on the path of responsible firearm ownership and shooting. Both my grandfathers were retired soldiers like myself and both loved and were deeply knowledgeable. My mother's father was in WWI and WWII and once explained to me, with a hand drawn illustration on how an M1911 worked and then explained the difference of the 1911 and 1911A1. My father's father served in WWII and brought back a collection of German issue weapons, which included his non-government issued "Government Model" Colt .45 ACP. It's a prized possession, and I do not have it here in Germany as I consider it irreplaceble. The German authorities may seize ones weapons for little reason, so safely stored in Texas it stays, along with a variety of P.08s, P-38s, Colts, Walthers, etc. It's too difficult to buy firearms in the US and bring them over here, lots of paperwork, expense and an added exportation exercise. When I return to the states, I will have my M1917 and my 1934 built Colt government, carried by my grandfather in WWII, so that will have to do for my "matched set"! Thanks again for your advice, hope to join the M1917 "shooters club" within the month! Pictures for this thread to come! By the way, have you posted pics of yours?

Mustang, that's a great one you've got along with that pristine P.17!

I saw this thread after I sold it but it was a pretty nice one so here's a picture. I'm going to miss it....

Thanks! Strangely, I've never been able to put together a decent group with this gun, as opposed to my very beaten-up Brazilian, which shoots like a champ.

Hi M2MikeGolf,


Nice to hear you have other Treasures safely secured in Texas.

What's left of Europe and the former UK have been in quite the protracted stuggle to retain much for rights or practical priveldge as far as firearms ownership and SD goes, as you must well know.

My Heart goes out to them.




Post No. 115


My only two are old War Horses with low Blue...both of which I acquired only recently.

The Long Barrel one is unusual, and, appears to be an able Gun Smith or maybe an S&W Factory re-Barrel using a no-calibre-stamp 2nd Mdl HE Barrel who's patents end in 1906.

It is a fine shooter and excellent timing and lock up.

My 'Bulged Barrel' one I bought cheap because I felt sorry for it, and, figured I would eventually round up a different Bulged Barrel, where the bulge is farther out, and, cut that Barrel down to as short as ( shortening ) the Ejector Rod Lug will allow, re-fit the Original Sight, Bob the Hammer, whittle out some nubby Stag Stocks, overhaul the worn and loose mechanism, and, have something of a charming, old War Horse, low Blue and lovable .45 ACP 'Snubby'...Home-Loads of 230 Grain full flat front Wadcutters over a full house charge of 'Unique', which, as a mid life City Boy, is egg-zactly what I would have done for Trouser Pocket Carry, if this was 1920, 1930, 1940 or any time since anyway.

I have been seeking medium to medium high condition one for a long time, and, have not taken the plunge yet...possibly because I am especially fascinated by the very earliest version, which had the concentric Mill Mark lines on the Hammer sides ( as my Long Barrel one does, being Serial No. 12,000-ish )...and, those are scarce for having been only maybe 8 percent or so of the production, if valued no different though.

Wish me luck!

Since I've seen some Brazilians in this thread, I thought I'd post a pic of mine. I was inspired to dig it out of the safe and shoot it this morning.

I've had this one for a long time. Think I got it for $300.00. The barrel is ringed and it has been through the wringer as well, but it still shoots pretty well. Was shipped fall of 1918. I used to carry this when on horseback and not worry about scratching it too much.

Nice revolvers, Oyeboteb, I'm lovin' that "artillery" model. What's the actual length on that?

Paid for my M 1917 today, register it tomorrow. Now all I have to do is be patient for about a month....

Hi All, I'm a new member to the forum. I saw all these nice 1917s so I thought I'd show mine off some. Thanks for all the good pics - Whitey

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Got this 1917 today. It's a commercial model and has been reblued and reabused and it does not have the original grips, but its mine and it shoots fine!

This one's no longer original, but still revered.

Just picked this one up, refinished by S&W in 1969.

Finally got my Model 1917 today after two months of waiting for the paperwork to clear. I was hoping to get it by the anniversary of the fall of Bataan, but can't complain too much considering the German love of bureaucracy. I'm thinking the finish is original, and although the outside is a little rough (no pitting though), the bore and chambers look almost new. I took the sideplate off, and although there was too much oil, there was no rust, no gum and no pitting. Range test this Sunday, can hardly wait. Extremely happy as this is a rarity of rarities here in Germany! Just wish I knew the story of how it got here....

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I hate to see this thread die out, hope that Model 1917 owners will keep 'em coming!

For the veteran 1917 owners, I have an ammuntion question. My M1917 seems to be shooting quite well; at ten meters with no rest other than a good two hand grip, I am getting 2" or so groups which I think to be pretty decent. There is an occasion wild flier, which I am not sure if "operator" induced or something else, but it actually seems to shoot tighter as it warms up, much like a good old M-1 Garand. However, it shoots high, a good 6" or so at ten meters. I am using 230 gr. FMJ Magtech ammuniton as it was all I had available to me at the time. I am thinking about trying to get some Federal 230 gr. "Personal Defesne" JHP (C45D) as it is really suited to a revolver (it's really a semi jacketed HP and Federal even recommends it for revolvers in .45 ACP). They also make this in 185 gr. I don't really intend on using this as "defensive" ammunition, but actually for finishing shots on game (I live in Germany, this is what "defense" ammunition is used for). My guess is that I should stick with the 230 gr. as I would assume the 185 gr. would shoot even higher. Anyone have experience with the ammunition or shooting high problem? I don't want to do any filing of rear sight on this revolver, and sending to S&W is out of the question since I am in Germany.

Like all you other M1917 owners, I am really happy with this old warhorse. It amazes me how well it shoots and functions at the tender old age of ninety-two. Although I paid about $600 for it, over here in Germany that's a deal and half; nothing is cheap over here anymore. Wish I had found it about ten years ago before the Euro hit, it probably would have been dirt cheap!

Gongratulations M2MikeGolf on it all having finally come through!


The price you mention would have been a good price over here in the States, ( I would have spring for it, had it been at the local Gun Show ) so, all in all I would say you did well, especially for being in Germany where I would expect prices for older high Grade American revolvers, to usually be quite a bit higher.

Very decent indeed..!



I have not shot these enough to know, but, I would imagine they maintained the tradition of Military Revolvers being sighted for quite a bit longer distance than you are Shooting at.

So, just Aim to 6:00 O'Clock, and, if that is not enough, then, of course, Aim a little below 6:00 O'clock...( chuckles )



Do you have any re-Loading experience?


Ligher Bullets, under full standard Charges, might actually shoot lower.


But regardless, if this is a Revolver you will enjoy Shooting, the ideal, would be to be re-Loading for it, thus allowing a variety of Bullet kinds, and, charges for different purposes.

Semi-Wadcutters, light Charges, for Target...etc.



Pardon me for accidentally having been missing this Thread for a while.

You had asked me a few Posts above this, what the Barrel Length of my Long Barreled one is ( which had been Re-Barrelled, of course), and, it is 6-1/2 Inches.

My own opinion about these is that their Bores would prefer to have the ease and virtually indeffinite longevity of shooting Lead Bullets, than the strains and wear of the full Copper Patch or other Jacketed.

One may also find a a slightly higher order of Accuracy, using appropriately sized Lead Bullets, than with Copper Patch or Hard Ball ( at least in theory! ).

Lead is kinder to the Revolver and it's Bore life.


The S&W Model of 1917 is the first Revolver I ever shot.

I was eight, and, my dad ran me through the basic drills and protocols, and, after that, when we'd go Fishing or Rock Hounding, he'd bring it and we'd shoot some rounds through it.

I was immediately a crack shot with it, shooting off Cigarette 'Cherries' and hitting Acorns and all sorts of things, Cans we'd set up, all the usual, and, I really liked it.

No ear protection of course in those days, and, I have no recollection of the report ever bothering me ( though I am sure my Ears must have rung! ). We always shot Gov't issue brown Box WWII Surplus Hardball.

All I know is that I deduced the Sighting the Revolver required, for me to hit what I wanted, where I wanted.

So, it if shot High ( as I am expecting they all did ) I never knew it as such, since I had learned to Aim according to where it hit.

Oyeboteb,

Thanks for the comments and experience, especially the story of you and your dad. My dad is not so interested in firearms, but both of my grandfathers were, and both carried M1911s in WWI and WWII; I still have my father's father's Colt Governement model that he carried in WWII, but not here in Germany. Anyway, I understand the value of a parent or family member making sure that a child learns about firearms in environment such as we both had; it teaches safety and respect and often begins one on a journey through life at least to some degree.

I have experience with handloading, and would love to do handload, for a variety of weapons I have here in Germany, however, one must take a reloading course and obtain a license to do that, and it's simply too hard to make that happen, as well as expensive here in Germany.

I understand the value of softer shooting with lead nosed bullets, but they are not easy to come by here in Germany either, the Germans prefer FMJs; until just a few years ago, handgun ammuntion couldn't even have hollow points. I have never been that crazy about lead bullets due to leading. I began thinking about that, and went back and very carefully examined the bore on my M1917 and discovered it had an alarming amount of lead around the throat. It took me about an hour with Shooter's Choice (the best I had at the time; Hoppe's #9 is really hard to find over here and I'm all out) to get all that lead out of the bore and forcing cone. I don't mind long cleaning sessions, in fact I rather enjoy them, but what concerns me is how hard all that lead was to detect. Interestingly, my chambers are clean through and through, so somebody did a pretty good cleaning before me, but missed all that lead. Anyway, I guess it's the old soldier in me, but I prefer and least a semi-jacketed bullet these days, copper is much easier to detect and clean (unless you are talking about machine guns).

As far as the high shooting, I'm not too concerned with it, was just wondering if anyone else had that experience. I was able to compensate pretty easily, but I'm accustomed to regulated sights and sight pictures at that range, so it's a bit of mental excercise to change up like that. It's alright though, you basically are looking at the full target when you aim like this. I wonder if it's regulated for 25 meters? I'll have to try it out, but don't have a 25 meter range easily available to me. In any event, the old warhorse shoots so well, it's not such a big deal, just adds to it's personality if anything. I've owned a lot of handguns, both autos and revolvers, but there's something really special about this one, it's no wonder S&W has resurrected it. I started out wanting a newly made one, but could not find a dealer over here that had any or would order them; so I found this old one instead and couldn't be happier. I am deeply interested in history, particularly military history, so this just makes the deal even sweeter. It amazes me that a revolver ninety two years old could function so well.

I really like that long barrel on your "artillery model". Did you buy it like that or have it rebarreled? I like to look at all the photos of the other M1917s, and am thinking seriously one day about a S&W reblue as I don't intend on ever selling the M1917 and don't care so much about collectibility. I really like that reblue on Lefkiguy's stag handled M1917, wouldn't mind mine looking like that one day!