Can anyone tell me which nations purchased the M&P revolver in .38 S&W (.380 Mark 2) - a.k.a. Model 11 - after WWII?

Many thanks.

I doubt anyone has a complete list but I associate the model with Great Britain and its colonies.

BTW- An actual model marked M11 is extremely rare.

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No life story has happy end.

I have one here on my desk in front of me. Unfortunately, there are no police or military markings on it.

Definately need to letter that one - how about some pictures?

Stamped MOD 11? I have never seen one.

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No life story has happy end.

I wonder what the total production of Pre-11 and Model 11 revolvers was. (I use "pre-11" to mean only the short action revolvers; I don't know whether there might be a few long action S-prefix postwar guns in .38/200.)

I sense there might have been several tens of thousands produced, but with virtually all of them slated for export I imagine very few have returned to the US. Seems to me they would be extremely rare here, regardless of what the situation may be in other countrieas.

I just learned about the Model 11 a few days ago when I was browsing aimlessly in SCSW -- "loitering without intent," I guess one could say. Interesting guns. I probably won't go looking for one, but I can't imagine walking away if one showed up in front of me.

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David Wilson

My Blue Book the model 11 was limited production from 1938 - 1965. Hope someone mumps in with more information.

i owned 2 of them, both with "C" serial numbers, 4" barrels, 38-200 caliber, butt swivels, one bright blue, one standard blue, NIB. I bought them in 1977 in Columbus GA. Roy stated in a letter that they had been in the vault since the mid 50's and when cleaning out the vault, sent them to a distributor.
Hope this helps,
Bill

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38-44heavyduty.com

I have a Model 11-4, s/n is C5703XX. Bright blue, lanyard loop, 4 screw frame, diamond Magna stocks. The letter that came with it says it came from the factory collection through Butterfield and Butterfield. I bought it from Jim Supica's Old Town Station in 1997.

Mine is marked "SAP" on the backstrap. It was intended for the South African Police.

Buff - any chance of you posting a photo of the SAP markings?

I'm sorry, I am not only cameraless but clueless and technologically impaired.

Interesting, but somethings don't ring true Buff.

Model 11s were purchased by South Africa, but I have as yet not been able to find out by which State Department. I have seen a tarted up engraved specimen that was presented to a Prisons Dept General on retirement, strongly suggesting that the prisons had them. However, historically the prisons had obtained their revolvers from the police or defence force (often hand-me-downs).

Every South African Police revolver I have seen was marked on the side of the frame or barrel lug and not on the back strap, unlike the Union Defence Force and Prisons. I also feel sure that the SAP mark was locally applied, and not by the factory. If your gun really did come from the factory collection (you don't say what the source of the letter was) then why was it SAP stamped?

Peter

My information comes from a Roy Jinks factory letter dated August 23, 1996 included with the gun. The seller I got the gun from (Jim Supica, co-author of the SCS&W) bought the letter; it is addressed to him.

The letter says that my Model 11 was sold a month earlier by B & B for Smith & Wesson and was shipped there from S&W. It said some of the guns sold in that auction were from the S&W factory collection, which were duplicates of the guns donated to the Connecticut Valley History Museum. It continues specifically about my gun:

"The item you inquired about Butterfield & Butterfield sale lot #88 Smith & Wesson Model 11-4 caliber .38 Smith & Wesson serial number C570XXX was in Smith & Wesson's inventory item CAB # 1-15-25. It was appraised at $550.00. The Model 11's were produced in the 1960's for export to South African Police."

Why is it stamped SAP if it never left the factory? It is common for S&W and many manufacturers to manufacture items in lots a bit bigger than the number ordered by the customer. It probably is intended to cover defective returns or to replace guns that fail final inspection before shipping. Government marked overrun guns aren't uncommon. I don't know what the reason is S&W still had my specific gun 30 years after they made it.

Mine looks like the one pictured in SCS&W III in the Model 11 section if you have the book but the backstrap marking isn't pictured.

Edited to add: Eyeballing it right now. The marking on the backstrap is actually " S.A.P. " rather than " SAP " if that matters any.

It looks like any 1960's 4 screw Model 10 M&P with a pencil barrel and modified Magna stocks (rounded on the bottom outside edges). The front sight is round profile on the front half and serrated flat ramped on the back half. The serial number on the butt is to the rear of the lanyard swivel hole. Cartridge marking on the left side of the barrel is " 38 S&W CTG 178 GR. ". The model marking is in the usual place on the frame in the yoke cutout and reads " MOD. " over " 11-4 ". The SAP on the backstrap is the only non-standard marking on the gun, besides the caliber rollstamp, of course. The marking looks factory-applied, as it is lined up on the same plane, of consistent size and depth letter to letter and has blue finish in it.

Peter-

What revolvers were used by the SAP? Were they .38 S&W (.38/200) or in .38 Special? Was the barrel length four inches?

When were they replaced, and was the Walther P-38/P-1 the replacement? Was the locally made Beretta 92 variant used? (Z-88).

What is issued now?

Thanks,

T-Star