I was thinking of requesting a letter from Roy on this one, but figured I'd ask the experts here too..

Recently picked up a 32 h.e with the following description. Pictures to follow later today:

• 32 long ctg
• Snub nose with rounded (1/2 moon sight)
• Matching serial numbers on grip butt, underneath barrel, behind ejector star and on cylinder.
• Ser# 672XX
• Blue finish (like new)
• small S&W stamp below cylinder release
• Rebated frame with diamond Square-butt grips
• Case colored trigger(smooth) & hammer
• 5 screws.

At first I thought this gun might be from the 40's as the S&W book (3rd ED) lists a 2" Reg Police barrel during this period. But the serial number is extremely low and the gun shop owner said it was on consignment from a guy that said the gun was over 100 years old.
I've never seen a 32 snub with the rebated frame/square grip. When I did a search, I kept getting round but pics.

Is this a rare piece? I can only get so far with the S&W book.

Any help is welcomed. Thanks.

UPDATE: Added 5 pictures. Historical letter request will go out tomorrow and I'll post the findings when it is returned.

Attached Images

	SN4.jpg (35.7 KB, 228 views)
	SN5.jpg (56.1 KB, 249 views)
	SN8.jpg (41.7 KB, 200 views)
	SN1.jpg (37.2 KB, 250 views)
	SN6.jpg (58.1 KB, 216 views)

That one's a puzzler. The rebated frame and square butt stocks are indicators of the Regulation Police model, as you know, but the RP wasn't introduced until 1917. By that time the company was WAY past the five-digit serial numbers in the .32 HE series. If part of the original numbering system, that gun would have shipped about 1906 or 1907

I have among my I-frames a prewar Kit Gun that shipped with round butt stocks but whose frame was later rebated by an independent gunsmith and fitted with RP stocks. The only thing I can think right now for your gun is that it was modified laer in life (frame cut for square butt stocks, barrel shortened to 2" and sight relocated) and reblued.

Do the RP stocks have the 1917 patent date stamped in the butt? Is the serial number on the butt of the gun on the bottom of the rounded grip frame, or on the forestrap behind the trigger guard.

Pictures are really going to help with this one.

__________________
David Wilson

Adding a few pictures, sorry, I don't have the best photo skills.

The serial is on the butt, not the forestrap. Nothing stamped in or on the grips.

I own quite a few Smiths and this gun looks entirely original to me. BTW, the speckling on one of the photos is just dust from the bore store bag. Gun truly looks unaltered to me (not that I'm an expert).
I may have to send in for a letter to find the truth about this one.

Did Smith & Wesson take custom orders back in the early 1900's??

Attached Images

	32S&W1.jpg (49.8 KB, 351 views)
	32S&W2.jpg (59.4 KB, 370 views)

Are there any re-work marks anywhere on the gun? Is the rebate of the frame clearly machined or are there indications of file marks?

I am assuming the serial number you report is correct. Some more photos wjth the stocks off would be very helpful. Based on the serial number you report, and assuming a numeral wasn't removed when the frame was rebated, again assuming this was done at a later date after manufacture is this. An early .32 H.E. was either returned to the factory or a gunsmith rebated an original round butt frame because the owner wanted the R.P. stocks installed after that model was introduced. This could have been as late as the late 1930s based on the stocks on the gun, or they could be a later addition. Subsequent to that, post 1949 when the 2" R.P. barrel was introduced, it again was returned to the factory to be re-barreled.

Show us some more good pictures of the SN and left side of the grip frame and maybe something more likely could be guessed at.

S&W did do special orders from day one clear up to the beginning of WWII. That wouldn't explain the pre-war to early post-war stocks and the post-war style of extractor rod. My best guess is you have mis-read the SN and it is a late 1930s gun re-barrelled sometime after 1949 as mentioned above. This would definitely be a good candidate for a factory letter to determine original configuration and ship date.

Looks good from here, Very Good!
Disrgard the speculation, it is easy to make up impossible stories, and done all to often around here (early Pinkerton alteration for pocket back-up when riding in Pullman cars) I'd get it lettered.

hi
ask for a ship date from roy the grips are post war transition and I think the gun is a regulation police model made up in the 50,s from prewar parts.
the number is very close to a 38 terrier that I have in 2 inch but it is round butt.
It could be a special that was made on the I frame.
but the grips are not prewar the checking has larger diamonds than pre war.
jim

Whatever it turns out to be . . . that is one nice lookin' Roscoe!

Thank for all your input.
Your help is very much appreciated.

To answer a few questions:

There are no rework stampings on the frame. The rebate area is just as clean as my other regulation Police guns are.

I did not mis-read the number. It is clearly stamped on the cylinder, butt of frame, back of ejector star and underneath barrel.

If it was rebarrelled at the factory, why would the barrel serial number match all the others?

I will definitely get this lettered by Roy and I'll report the findings on this post with additional pictures( when it stops raining. My camera takes better pictures outside on the deck, than it does inside). In any case, I really like the look of the gun and will get to the range on a much dryer day (raining like cats & dogs here).

I think it's going to take a letter. I won't add to the speculation, because there is enough of that above. I agree with some of it, not with the rest.

I'n addition to the postwar ejector rod knob, I'll just point out:

(1) Strain screw, meaning the gun has a flat mainspring. It's not an improved I-frame.

(2) Straight waist thumb release, not hourglass-shaped. Definitely NOT prewar.

SCSW says the 2" barrel was introduced for both the .32 HE and the .32 RP in 1949. I have a .38 RP with those three features from 1950, so I'm thinking 1949-1950 for this gun.

The serial number is the main oddity, as I see it.

__________________
David Wilson

That's a pretty little thing, beautiful color on the hammer and trigger. Would be interesting to see what a letter says, but I would enjoy owning it regardless of what it might say.

Keith

I have to say that is one of the nicest looking little snubs I've seen.

When you request a letter, include pictures, and at least one without
the grips. That will be helpful to the historian.

Mike Priwer

Very interesting piece, will be waiting the letter results!

__________________
H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

As Jim said the stocks are very peculiar. They seem to have pre war medallions and the border is pre war but the checkering is 16 instead of 18 LPI. Unusual.
Paul

__________________
"NUTS"

whatever the letter will indicate, i think that is a spectacular looking little revolver!

I printed out the S&W history request form and will try and get some outdoor daylight pictures done this week to send with my $50.

Does anyone know what the turnaround time is on these letters?

That's a beauty and an anomoly all right!

The only abnormalities I see are:
the 5 digit serial number,
where it is stamped on the butt,
and the lack of address & 'Made In USA" on the lower front right side of the frame. However, those three things are all correct and conincident for a 1906 to 1909 .32 Hand Ejector Model of 1903 - 2nd change!

No problem with a post war 2" barrel.
No problem with the grips: Pre war sharp cornered borders, post war lines-per-inch checkering, or post war medallions (even pre war medallions). Those are all indicative of early post war guns.

So although only a letter will confirm what it is, just for fun I'll go on record as saying: It's a pre war Hand Ejector frame already serial numbered that was pulled from old inventory, had the frame factory rebated, was assembled early post war as a Regulation Police and shipped in the post war forties/very early fifties.

Therefore an all factory gun in beautiful condition and a highly sought after unusual collectible. And one that proves one of Roy's S&W collecting rules: "Never say never!" And proves another old axiom: "The main rule is, there are no rules."

__________________
Jim
S&WCA #819

Just received my letter back from Roy.

The gun was a 32 h.e. originally shipped in 1907 to Savannah GA.
It was shipped as a 4.5 inch barrel gun with hard rubber grips.

The gun was redone in 1920 to reflect the new barrel length and grips.

Roy ended the letter with "one very interesting revolver". Regardless of the change to the gun, I'm still amazed anytime I hold something like this that dates back to before my parents were born and weathered the test of time in such good shape.
I only wish I could find all the stories this old gun could tell.

This chapter is closed. I will put this away for my boy to someday show his kids.

Not closed yet, there's more to this gun than the letter reveals. The unexplained issues are that it has at least three parts on it that weren't manufactured until after WW II:
the extractor rod with associated lack of rod cut under the barrel,
the post war thumblatch and,
the post war medalions/early post war grips.

Did you happen to send a photo to Roy with your letter request. He would confirm those items.

__________________
Jim
S&WCA #819

I can't offer an explanation for the thumblatch or the grips, but wouldn't that be the correct ejector rod for all 2" barrels. If it had the pre-war style ejector rod tip (or the pre-'23 one with the mushroom head) would it be long enough to eject?

Here is an M&P that shipped in February 1939 with the "post-war" style uniform diameter ejector rod. I realize it's a K frame in 38 Special (longer case) but wouldn't the I frame have the same dimensioned ejector rod?



Sorry for the terrible picture.

Russ

Hondo,
I sent Roy about 10 different pictures using a macro lens setting for really good detail.

He wrote that my gun was a 32 hand ejector model 1903 2nd change.
Shipped on July 29th, 1907.

Shipped to J.D. Weeds Co in Savannah GA.

The 4.5 inch barrel and plastic grips that were originally on the gun were the only changes that Roy points out in the letter. He goes on to state that the revolver was rebuilt in September of 1920 to it's current state.

If there is important info missing after I went to the trouble of taking the pictures and the cost of $50.00; it will be the last time I send $50 to S&W.

Those are good questions you pose and I thought my photos and payment would have overturned those stones.

Thank you to everyone here on the forum who has tried to help me figure this one out.

In fairness to the historian, it's not possible to put into a letter information that is not accessible in the company files. If I was actually surprised that Roy could tell you the gun was rebuilt in 1920, because it's my understanding repair paperwork is filed under the requesting party's name, not the item's serial number. There may well have been factory work done after WWII that Roy could not report because it was not filed in a way that permitted him to dig it up. Or the post WWII features of the revolver may be the result of work by a skilled independent gunsmith, with no factory involvement at all.

One thing I noticed in your excellent photos that I had not picked up on before is that the end of the hammer stud and rebound slide stud look flattened. Without those indicators I would never have considered the possibility that this gun had been refinished. But I now think it is possible that the gun was rebuilt a third time after WWII and possibly refinished at that time by someone who really knew what he was doing.

I love guns with complicated histories that can be worked out from the evidence on the gun itself as well as available records. Your .32 is one of the most interesting revolvers to have come to my attention in the two or three years I have been serious about studying S&Ws. Thanks for keeping us current on your research efforts.

__________________
David Wilson

Hi Russ,
That's a very sweet little 38! And two inch barrels were made for it much earlier than WW II. Reportedly though, the 2" wasn't introduced on the I frame until 1949. However I'm easily convinced that one could have been special ordered before that. Smith was very accomodating in those years. And your gun shows that at least on the K frame, the skinny ejector rod head was used before the war, albeit just before in 1939.

But there are the other characteristics pointing to post WW II modifications to the OP's gun. For example the finish is awfully pristene for a gun not refinished since the '20s. I have to think there is another unknown chapter on this gun's history.

__________________
Jim
S&WCA #819

Russ:
That is my grail gun.
Ed

Hello Casehardn
That is a very neat revolver you have there. I suspect from what MR. Jinks said this gun was sent back to be modified possibly for a daily carry piece with it's barrel being changed in the process to make it easier to carry or Possibly conseal. In the second picture of it, it looks to me like the caliber barrel stamp may or may not have been applied with an engraving pencil rather than stamped, although the Numerals appear to be period correct for that time frame, it may have been factory applied with an engraving Pencil or by one of the factory engravers prior to being reblued. The stock's are very Interesting as Member Jim Fisher has remarked being Prewar in style but Postwar in their checkering. This could be perhaps they were left over Prewar stocks fitted and made for this gun when it was Modified at the factory maybe at a Later date of service that MR Jinks is not asware of. Is there any pencil or stamped serial number's on the right rear panel of them ?

As said by some others, I am Surprised myself that MR. Jinks was able to verify that this revolver had been returned for service work where it's barrel and stock's seemed to have been changed as most service records by Private individuals are not available and the fact that he put this in the factory letter will enhance the worth of your gun much more than the $50.00 research Fee, as it is far better to have him say it has a factory modification rather than leave it unknown and make one think the work may have been done instead by "Billy Bob's Ridge Top Gun shop" and that the barrel was docked off with Papaw's Old hack saw, and touched up with Cold Blue after it was crowned by Uncle Jeb...

We as collectors, accumulators or just Plain lovers of these Old Prewar S&W's tend to be very critical and put these under a Microscope wanting clear cut answer's on them, as far as their configuration or features that they seem to have but in reality S&W was in a Gun Making Business to make Money and sell guns, not keep a history trail on every gun that left there, or of the service work it had been returned for. Nothing more , Nothing less, and if one was willing to fork out the green back's for custom level service work back in the Old days, for personal features added to their guns, Then the sky was the Limit and that is where these personal level firearms fall into place. I know for a fact that S&W & MR Jinks do a lot better job of Lettering guns that Colt does and the cost is much less on any S&W's that one has lettered...

In closing here I noticed that J.D. Weeds is still in Business, see the link below. If this gun were mine I would call them and ask if they were ever in Business to "sell S&W's" ? as by their web page it is pretty apparent they were in the furniture business, not sporting good's & Perhaps your gun was owned by one of the store family members and kept there for their protection due to it's Pristeen shape I would say it sat most of it's life, rather than riding down Copper Head road delivering Corn Liquor to local residents... just a thought here...

Savannah's Antique Source