Questions for those who know about 2nd Generation .44 Specials

[bushmaster1313]

I am considering a gun that is said to be a 1919 2nd generation 6.5" .44 Special and would appreciate information from those who know about these things.

1) Does it make sense that the grips of a 1919 would not be numbered at all.

2) For a relative beginner getting his first and maybe only .44 Special, should I care between a first and second generation?

3) Should I expect to be able to shoot a 1919 gun with modern .44 Special ammo.

4) What would be the approximate range in price for a 6.5" model that shows wear and use, but appears to be in relatively good original condition.

Thank you

[Rio Laxas]

1) I believe the grips were numbered in pencil so it may no longer be visible.

2) While the Triple Lock (and the 3rd Model) are both excellent revolvers with a lot of interesting history, I really like my 2nd Models a lot. 2nd Models are generally more affordable, so I think it would be a decent acquisition for someone getting into .44 Specials.

3) Yes

4) I have 2 6.5" 2nd Model Hand Ejectors. I think I paid $500 for one of them and $650 for the other.

If the price is right, I would not hesitate!

[Toyman]

It is hard to value without photos. The 2nd model was the red headed step child of the Triple lock and 3rd model but interest in the 2nd model has picked up.
Grips :The only way you would know would be to letter it I think they would be walnut with out medallions.
To find a Triple lock or 3rd model shooter at the price of a nicer 2nd model would be hard or just lucky.
I have several 2nd model 44 and I shoot with modern 44 special loads.
If it looks good and is tight buy it an enjoy it.
I sold a shooter grade 2nd model 44 for $650 2 weeks ago.

[DWalt]

A first model triple lock will be considerably more expensive than the second model, given equivalent cosmetic condition. The grip style changed around 1919-20, and as you do not know the actual date of the gun, it could have either earlier or later style. The earlier style is checkered wood with deep dish gold medallions. The later style has checkered grips but with no medallions and a convex top. For the latter type, the SN is penciled on the back side of the right grip panel, and is often very difficult if not impossible to see.

[rct269]

1. No, it does not make sense that the (original) grips would not have been numbered. (Yes, it makes sense you cannot see the numbers.) Grips which were numbered with other than scratching (hard rubber) or stamping were numbered in pencil. Pencil worked fine for its intended purpose at the time (getting grips back together with their frame at "final assembly")----not so good for our purpose today----and those doing the numbering couldn't care less. The penciled numbers are prone to disappear over time. Strong light, magnification, and varied viewing angles have a way of bringing disappeared numbers back to life----as does photography. (I don't know the why's and wherefore's of photographic resurrection---only that it works.) A helpful hint: Don't clean the grips before you go looking for penciled numbers.

2. You should care about the difference between 1st and 2nd generation only if you buy into the mystique of the "Triplelock". Aside from the mystique (and the increased value/cost because of it), the differences are: No third lock on the 2nd generation---no ejector rod shroud on the 2nd---------------------period (except that the 2nd cost $2 less at the time----$19 vs. $21).

3. Yes, you can shoot modern ammo (in either)---all day long---unless your name is Elmer Keith. Then you can shoot SCALDING handloads---all day long.

4. I have no clue as to the values/prices you may encounter---except that the 1st generation is (very) likely to be higher---all other things being equal (See "mystique" above).

Ralph Tremaine

[raljr1]

i recently bought a very nice 2nd model for under $750. Having said that, i looked long and hard to find one in nice shape at that price. If you can find a decent shooter under $700 with finish you can live with, you're doing ok You can certainly shoot modern factory ammo with no worries. . here's a link to mine, and some idea of what these old work horses can do.
2nd Model 44 Hand Ejector Look at post #21

mine makes me look like a much better shooter than I am. good thing is, if you don't love the gun, you'll have no trouble finding a buyer for it.

[crsides]

The only advantage of the 2nd model is lower price and the higher serial numbers should be heat treated for modern 44 spl loads. I know the military 45's were heat treated for delivery for WWI and it stands to reason, the 2nd model 44's shipped after WWI would be also. I do not know when exactly the heat treating started, but all triple locks should be assumed to be not heat treated.

Charlie

[BUFF]

Current .44 Special factory ammo from the major makers is loaded to the same or less pressures than the ammo they loaded back in 1908 when the caliber first was marketed. Classic loading is a 246 grain round nose lead bullet which chronographs about 700-725 fps, loaded by Winchester and Remington-Peters, but is cataloged by them as doing 755 fps. There are "cowboy action shooting" loads that are even lighter. In addition, there are no industry standards for any Plus-P varieties, so if you stick with ammo from the big 3 (W-W, R-P, Federal) makers you won't subject any S&W or Colt .44 Special to undue stress.

There are some boutique ammo makers who load the cartridge to higher velocities and pressures, but unless you are going to hunt with it, I don't see any reason to go warmer than standard. The traditional load will penetrate paper targets and cardboard backers more than adequately!

[Hondo44]

Originally Posted by bushmaster1313

I am considering a gun that is said to be a 1919 2nd generation 6.5" .44 Special and would appreciate information from those who know about these things.

1) Does it make sense that the grips of a 1919 would not be numbered at all.
2) For a relative beginner getting his first and maybe only .44 Special, should I care between a first and second generation?
3) Should I expect to be able to shoot a 1919 gun with modern .44 Special ammo.
4) What would be the approximate range in price for a 6.5" model that shows wear and use, but appears to be in relatively good original condition.

Thank you

1. The back fo the right side grip IS always numbered originally. After 97 years, as Ralph said you'll need visual aids to see it like on the one below. This is the correct position to read the number along the back strap just below the top of the grip:



The correct grips for a 1919 vintage have genuine gold plated brass medallions recessed in the wood like below. They're worth $200 +/- by themselves, so will have a decided affect on the overall value of the gun if it has the right grips:



2. If the ".44 Special Hand Ejector - 2nd Model" appeals to you, than no, you should not care except for resale because 1st Models are highly in demand and the 3rd Model is next and more desired than the 2nd Model; therefore all priced relative to their desirability.

The gun above is a 1st Model which has the extractor rod shroud under the barrel, and the 3rd does as well. That's the reason for the higher desirability of the 3rd over the 2nd.

If it's a 2nd Model Target version (with adjustable rear sight) it's scarce and the price can double.

3. Any standard velocity or lighter loadings of current 44 Spl ammo is perfectly safe for that gun. With the serial # we can give you a better idea of its age. All Smith hand ejector models by 1920, have the cyl heat treating which provides a little extra margin of strength. Can you get the serial#?

4. Some reasonable values were provided above. Completely original in collectable condition (95% or more of the ORIGINAL finish) remaining will reach into four figures. Very worn, refinished, abused or w/o original grips, of course much less down to an ~ low of $500.

I hope this is helpful,

[bushmaster1313]

All comments were helpful
Looks like the way to go for me would be a 2nd generation non-target