When did S & W stop using the 'S' prefix in N-Frame Serial Numbers?

Particularly, with regard to the Model 58, .41 Magnum Revolver.

Did all the N-Frames share the 'S' prefix untill it was dropped?

The S prefix for all the N frames ended in 1969. Whether there were any model 58s produced that year is a good question; someone in Forum-land may have one, or can tell you the latest S prefix one they have seen.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

I thought it was 1970... but I could be wrong. All the N frames in production changed at that time... whenever it was.

Yep, according to SCSW 3rd edition, S&W changed to the "N" serial prefix in 1969 at serial number S333454.

Just to be clear, I'm not certain if this information is specific to just model 29's or applies to all N-frames.

I think it pertains to all N Frames, but you never know how many were stamped waiting assembly, or assembled waiting shipment.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

The switch from S to N affected all N-frame revolvers. N1 is a 28-2 and was shipped in early 1970. The Model 58 was not a particularly popular revolver, so it is possible one with an S serial number shipped after the switch to N serial numbers was made. This is not uncommon and is known to have occurred for other models. For example, S287571, is a Model 28-2 and was shipped in July 1972, long after the N serial numbered guns were first shipped.

Bill

Thank you everyone for the info.

Good to know!

One must always remember that with S&W's, mfg. date and shipping date are not the same. According to ATF regulations, once the frame was manufactured and assigned a serial number it was a firearm. S&W did not keep a record of those mfg. dates as they were only concerned with the cash end of the transaction. They only got paid when the gun shipped and therefore only recorded those dates.

Guns were also manufactured in groups, they did not make them one at a time. I am not sure how small the smallest run was but let's assume it was for 50 guns. All of those frames would be run and numbered. Some times they would build all 50 and other times only 25. They would then go into the vault or holding area awaiting shipment. These completed guns were merely pieces of inventory and the shipping department did not care in which order of serial number, the guns were shipped.

Sometimes the remaining frames sat around and were assembled and shipped out at a much later date. Hence, S&W serial numbers and shipping dates have absolutely no direct correlation. Yes, you can have consecutive serial numbered guns that shipped on the same day, but you can also find two consecutive numbered guns that shipped years if not decades apart.

The same holds true for engineering changes. Trying to tie engineering changes to specific dates or serial numbers is also difficult due to the above. That is why you may find a 5 screw gun that shipped years after its 4 screw brother.

Hope that helps.

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James Redfield
LM #497

I had never heard the term "S frame" until a few days ago, when a salesman friend, who I've known for 35 years or so used it when he was showing me a pre-27, 357. If I hadn't known him all that time, and respected his knowledge, I'd have thought he was mistaken. It was a VERY nice gun I might add...

Learn something new every day. Thank the Lord!

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John 3:16 .

Was it actually an "S" frame or was it an "S" serial number used on an "N" frame?
Dick

Well that I can't tell you for sure. According to a couple of people on this forum, it's a pre-27 357, made in 1954 by the S/N. (S-122xxx). Is it or isn't it?

There is no model number on the gun. The box just says .357 Magunm.

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John 3:16 .

It is an "N" frame gun with a "S" prefix serial number. Not to be confused with an "N" frame gun with an "N" prefix serial number. All "N" serial prefix guns are "N" frames however, not all "S" serial prefix guns are "N" frames.

You will find models 10, 11, 12 and 45 with "S" serial number prefixes but they are "K" frames.

The "N" serial number prefix began at "N1" at or around 1969 and ran to about "N 97XXXX" on or around 1984-5. After that, S&W went to the 3 Alpha/ 4 Numeric sequence that I believe is still used today.

Hope that helps.

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James Redfield
LM #497

Very true!


And was true for Colt and S & W even prior to any interest from the B of A T F and now also E.


And indeed, some instances it is literally 'decades' between when the Gun was made, and, when it was shipped and entered into the Books as 'Shipped'.


And speaking of Model 58s, I t-h-i-n-k I remember reading about an S prefix which was bought new in the 1990s, where a Gunstore ordered it for a customer from S & W, but, I am not certain.


Some of the 'Brazil' Contract S & W .45 ACP Revolvers of course used Frames, Cylinders, Barrels and other parts, which were 20 years old, or more, if considering the last shipments of those...but I do not recall whether the Serial Numbers in some cases were form WWI or not...

'Clean-Up-runs' and so on also...


Some of the early Colt Automatics for some reason sat around for 20 or 30 years before being shipped, so, you can get a Letter showing a shipping Date of 1931, for an '03 Pocket whose serial Number otherwise, would indicate mfg in 1903 or early '04.

Not common, but, it happened.

Makes it all just that much more interesting!

It'd be fun to know what the longest known period is as per a 'Letter' telling shipping date, for a gun assigned the Serial Number however many years or decades before.

Some Colt Single Actions also, sat around for decades before being shipped.

I think I just picked up the last s-prefix model 58. It has gold lettering is a p&r but the grips are pachmyrs presentation rubber grips not wood. Picked it up for $775 no papers no box.. no problem cause ive been looking for a 58 for ever and it is barely broken in from what I can see. Pic is horrible but this one is pristine.

Attached Images

IMG_0105.jpg (123.3 KB, 1735 views)

Nice looking M58. The gold lettering was added by an earlier owner; at one time, I did the same to several of my firearms, using a kit by Brownells (I think).

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Very nice! As mentioned above, usually specific models were made in runs/batches, so this may not be 'the' last S prefix model 58 but it's certainly one of the last. Enjoy!

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

My M58, S327XXX, was bought new in '78 or '79 when I was in college. That's a good 10 years after the S/N would indicate it was actually made.

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NHI, 10-8.

I bought a mod 58 "S" about 71-72. It had sat in the display case for more than seven years before I bought it. I had to blow a little dust off of it. They weren't popular back then.

You would not believe how many so called experts and some of them writers who believe there was a S frame. They see it on the serial number and believe it is the frame size.

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Tom
NRA Pistol Inst

Yep, no such thing as an S Frame S&W, and I am not even an expert.