(Update: See restoration photos)

Hello,

I just purchased this Smith which has the number REG 3621 under the crane and the SN 56313 on the barrel, frame, extractor star and cylinder. The nickle appears to be a refinish and the trigger and hammer are nickle too.

I would like to know what to do with this gun to restore it. I guess I need a letter from Roy to start. What grips do I put on it and who should I send it to for the restoration? Any help is appreciated.

Thanks,

Blaine

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This is one of those rare circumstances where I would advocate refinishing (to undo the damage done by a previous owner). The hammer and trigger should NOT be plated and the quality of the refinish is awful.

Yes, letter it and determine what finish it was in when shipped. Then select a quality refinisher (I doubt S&W will do it) and restore it to its original appearance. It is worthwhile on a gun this valuable.

The letter will tell you what stocks were on it. Either Magnas (expect to pay around $400-$500 for a good set or pre-war n frame Magnas) or Service type.

PS: My RM from 8/38 is 146 after yours in serial.

congrats on RM find. i have sent several gun's to David Chicoine, he does
a great job on restoring old smith's.

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George Jamison

Just my suggestion.
Leave the gun as-is for now and order a factory letter from Roy Jinks
right away.
The letter will tell you where or who it shipped to
and most importantly, the original configuration of the gun.
From there you should have an expert such as David Chicoine
look at it and give you an estimate for restoration.

Good luck
Allen Frame

__________________
NRA cert.instructor&R.S.O.

First off, nice RM. A factory letter is a great place to start, it will tell you what configuration the revolver left the factory. You can look under the stocks and see if there are any re-work marks. For instance there would be a * stamped next to the serial on the butt, there would also be a date stamp such as 5-52. This would indicate a May 1952 trip back to the factory. Look for a diamond stamp as well, this would indicate a major component replacement, such as a barrel or cylinder. There also will/should be either a "B" stamp, or an "N" stamp, this indicates whether the revolver left the factory finished in bright blue, or nickel. If the gun has a "B" stamp, then it has definitely been refinished.

Only 144 Pre-War Magnum's were shipped in nickel, and I don't see yours in the list of known REG numbers. I would recommend Dave Chicoine for a restoration on one of these. The stocks would either be standard service stocks with a Wesson adapter, or pre-war magna's.

Does the hammer have concentric grooves on the sides along with checkering covering the entire top surface?

Jared

By the time you pay for restoration and a proper set of stocks, you may be spending enough to buy a better gun. Then it is a question if you would rather have a restored gun that looks near new or an original gun with lesser finish.

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Dick

For restoration of a valuable collector's piece, I always think first of Dave Chicoine, oldwestgunsmith.com.

Underneath the failing finish that gun does not look half bad. The frame and impressions do not look over buffed to me (except that I can't see the company logo), so I think a refinish or restoration to its original configuration would be achievable.

The gun would have come either with service stocks (and a possible grip adapter) or prewar magnas. The letter would tell you which to look for.

I'm kind of envious. I think you got a diamond in the rough, and I hope you keep us all posted on future steps in returning it to glory.

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David Wilson

The only markings under the grips are an "s" on the left side and a "B" on the right side.

The hammer does have concentric grooves on the sides along with checkering covering the entire top surface.

It does not appear to be overbuffed anywhere, but the logo on the side plate is weak.

"The only markings under the grips are an "s" on the left side and a "B" on the right side."

It was originally blued. Pretty much what I suspected. It looks to have about a 4" barrel. The hammer and trigger would have been color case hardened.

Jared

Another indication of a blued gun, would be a "B" in the ejector rod shroud on the left side of the serial number. Congratulations on a great find. I too would recommend a letter and then a trip to Mr. Chicoine's. BTW my 1st RM was REG 3261 (with an 8.75" barrel), and for a minute the dyslexia kicked in and I thought that you had posted the REG number for my gun. Do you mind posting the barrel length from the front of the cylinder - it looks to me to be longer than 4" but shorter than 5" which would be real cool.

Thanks for sharing,

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Richard
Engraved S&W fan

+1 for Dave. I had him do a complete makeover on my pre-war Magnum and the results were beautiful. I added a set of KB grips to finish the job and the gun is as good as new.

The gun was unsafe to shoot when purchased and is like new these days and a pleasure to shoot.

Thanks for all the great information. The barrel length is 4 1/4" and I am sending the letter form to Smith this morning! Hopefully, I can get the letter back to share my results. It appears that Dave Chicoine is the best for the restoration, but are there any more for a more reasonable price restoration? His bluing for RMs starts at $800. Just asking

Blaine

This is not a criticism in any way, but higher quality work will always take more effort and cost more. It depends on whether you want it "refinished" or "restored"; the latter is much more involved.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

4 1/4", if its original, is a very scarce barrel length. Somewhere
between 4 and maybe 10 revolvers were ordered with this length.
This is perhaps the primary reason why a letter is so important. It
will confirm the original barrel length.

Dave Chicoine is a good choice. I'm not aware that his prices are
out of line - perhaps they may be a bit less that others.

As others have pointed out, there is a vast difference between how
the factory would have refinished it, and a restoration. Of course, the
factory will not work on that gun today, but the Chicoines offer both
a 'factory refinish' and a restoration. The factory refinish simply
reapplies the finish, but does not remove any dings, dents, scratches,
etc. A restoration attempts to restore the gun to as-new condition.

First things first - get a letter to confirm the barrel length. If indeed it
is a 4 1/4" gun, then I'd have it restored. Otherwise, if the barrel has
been shortened from some longer length, then a factory refinish might
be more appropriate.

Mike Priwer

Blaine:

Like Mike said, 4.25" is a rare barrel length. If it letters as such, "restoration" is what I would do if it were my RM. Let us know what you find out from Roy.

Thanks,

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Richard
Engraved S&W fan

Blaine

Would you remeasure, as carefully as possible, the barrel length
again ? See if maybe its 1/16" or 1/8" longer than 4 1/4". Also,
could you measure the length of the extractor rod, from the front
face of the cylinder to its end ?

Thanks, Mike Priwer

Ok, I have measured again and the tape stops exactly at 4 3/8" from flush against the cylinder to the very tip of the barrel. The tape I used copensates as if it was a straight ruler for accuracy. Does 1/8" make that big of a difference?

Also, the letter went into the mail this morning.

Blaine

Blaine

Yes - it makes all the difference in the world. Its probably a 4 1/2"
gun. Typically there is a tolerance of at least +/- 1/16", and its
not uncommon to be +/- 1/8 inch. They are rarely longer, and almost
always shorter. This is because the barrel is cut to length before being
fit to the frame. In the fitting process, if the barrel runs into the
cylinder, or does not turn up tight to the frame, they have to shorten
it a bit, and do a bit more threading. This always makes it shorter.

Mike Priwer

Mike, you evidently have a lot of experience in this area. Is the 4 1/2" a common RM or do I need to hope for it to letter as a 4 1/4" ?

Blaine

Blaine

4 1/2" is one of the scarce lengths. There were about 90 of them, out
of about 5000 guns. Almost everyone likes the 3 1/2", of which there
were about 314. 4 1/2" is very desireable, and much less production.

Mike Priwer

If it was my gun, I would spend the money to restore it. BUT, if you go that route, you should recognize you're doing it for love, not money. I don't believe you could ever get your money back for a restoration in your lifetime. Just sayin,

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Bob.
SWCA 1821

Here's a Kansas City non-RM that Dave Chicoine, Jr restored for me. Keith Brown grips.

Onomea, do you have any "before" pictures of your KC revolver? I am considering the same work on mine. Thanks in advance, Joe.

Joe, re "before pix," I am not sure. I need to check my other computer. Also sent you a PM.

It may be the lighting in the pictures, my aging eyes or a combination, but that finish almost looks like paint. Where it is gone from the cylinder it looks like there is blue underneath. Is that actual plating or some kind of DIY finish? Could it be stripped without polishing in order to assess the condition of the metal underneath?

Talk about diamonds in the rough. But with the right treatment I'll bet she shines!

__________________
I need ammo, not a ride.

I wish it was paint, but it is plated. I think the restorers can do a reverse plating process that will remove it without polishing, or at least I hope that is how they do it.

Blaine

Blaine,

I hope you mean "remove it WITHOUT polishing"! If someone takes the buffing wheel to it, the value will drop like a rock.

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Bob.
SWCA 1821

Congratulations! I own RM 3615 and it is a 4" specimen. The serial number is 56323, which is slightly higher than yours. Of course you know that they weren't finished in SN order. Mine was shipped April 11, 1938.Hope this information increases your interest in these fine old revolvers. I must agree with the other posters, start with the letter from Roy Jinks.

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... fortunate son...

It's always fun to see new finds on reg magnums.
I was thinking to myself that this revolver may have been plated way back by a lawman or outdoorsman or someone who just wanted as much resistance to weather for utilitarian purposes and said revolver may have a very colored history as is. It will be interesting to see if you find out it's original owner and stories that may come out of your find including info about the nickling. Congrats and thanks for sharing.

Hello if I may chime in I have a nickel reg mag that I have not taken time to have Mr Jinks ck It. Reg # 2197 ser # 5177x It is a 3 &1/2 inch

The factory letter just came in, now what?

Attached Files

Reg Mag Page 2.pdf (465.3 KB, 1337 views)

Recollections... Death of East Troy Navy pilot recalls memories of first casualty of WWII

Cecil Gardner is mentioned in this article, possibly the same individual

First off, whatever you do, don't do any more harm.
That said, you can vastly improve the appearance of it and make it very presentable as a shooter without spending too much more money. If you aren't ready to invest a few more thousand dollars on a complete, correct restoration, I would start with the following: (which is pretty much what I did with a previously plated RM I used to own)
-have the hammer and trigger de-plated and then properly case colored (will probably cost about a hundred bucks)
-replace the grips with correct pre-war magnas. (for a good used set $200-400)
-carefully clean the gun with 'Flitz' metal polish and a soft cloth. This will remove the milk-y-ness of the aged plating and blend the areas where the plating has flaked off.
You are lucky in that the sights haven't been plated as was so often the case when these were refinished (back when they were just another cheap used service revolver).

Just offering another possibility that will make it a gun you can still show off while you contemplate future options.

P.S. If you need a set of comparable condition pre-war magna grips, PM me and I'll let you know what I've got to choose from.

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Chris
SWCA #2243 SWHF #292

Now you need to find a qualified shop that can restore this for you. I think it would be better to find a place that will remove the nickel in a plating reversal process rather than just buff it away. After you are down to bare metal, you need to have a qualified refinisher recut the stampings wherever they are weak, then give a sensitive polish to the gun before giving it its new blue.

I think a couple of unnecvessary words remained in the letter when the historian edited a standard phrase to reflect your particular revolver. Where it says "checkered walnut Magna grips with grip" I think the words "with grip" should be deleted. Earlier RMs with non-Magna stocks sometimes came with a custom grip adapter to widen the total grip and give extra support to the middle finger. But Magna stocks are incompatible with that adapter unless someone undertakes to thin the magnas (not advised) or creates some custom shims. I don't think the company did that, though home woodworkers and custom gunsmiths did.

The front sight on the gun now is not a Sheard gold bead sight and would need to be replaced if you wanted to be consistent with the gun's original configuration. Similarly, the rear sight leaf does not look like a King 111, which had a U-shaped notch and a white outline. That photo is out of focus, but I don't see the white outline and it looks like the notch is square rather than rounded. It shouldn't be impossible to find a King 111 leaf.

As SP said above, you will need to get some prewar N-frame stocks for this gun.

This sounds like a lot of work, but the good news is that the gun does not seem to have been aggressively polished before its nickel experience. Frame edges are not rounded and the sideplate still mates well with the frame. That's good.

Talk to David Chicoine's shop first (oldwestgunsmith.com). If they can't help you, there is a firm called Ford's that has had a good reputation in the past, though I have heard opinions that their recent work was not as consistently good as in prior years. Nevertheless, those are the two places I would start.

It is my belief that 4.5 inch barrels are not common on RMs. That makes this one distinctive and interesting.

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David Wilson

Well so far I have reblued it and found a nice set of Pachs that fit real good... Just kidding! Its only been oiled so far. I will have to think about any moves next since it appears very pricey to restore RMs, but I did email the Sheriff's office about Mr. Gardner and I will update you guys if they reply. Chris, I will PM you.

Blaine

Here's some info about the Walworth County SO that may interest you. They were pretty progressive for 1938.

Walworth County Sheriff

__________________
I need ammo, not a ride.

Here are more pictures of the sights David. Let me know if I need to take anymore.

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The only Cecil M. Gardner in the Social Security Death Index was born in 1909 and died in 1997. He last lived in El Paso, and his SS card was issued in Tennessee.

No Cecil Gardners were enrolled in SS in Wisconsin, nor drew their last benefit there.

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David Wilson

A Sheard gold bead front sight would look like this one, which is mounted on a much smaller revolver. The one for your RM might be slightly longer and a little taller, but would still look much the same. (This gun, a .22/32 Kit Gun, was shipped in 1937, so you are in the ballpark as far as dating is concerned.)




And this is a King 111 rear sight leaf. It is mounted on the same .22/32 Kit Gun.



I can see in your new photos that the rear sight blade on yours was definitely replaced. It is now a no-outline square notch leaf.

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David Wilson

If you want to take you inquiry one step further submit a copy of your letter to Smith and Wesson Historical and see what is in scanned documents. This might straighten out question on the type of grips.
This will cost a little but if any documents are found could be interesting.

Personnaly, I would have it restored to a nice blue, get a pair of Keith Browns grips and leave the sights as they are. I appreciate that in the past, someone changed it to their liking, so would leave it that way. I have an RM that was cut from 8 1/2 to a 6, and the hammer changed to a cockeyed style and pearl steerhead grips with ruby eyes. I just shoot it as is and appreciate the history. In this case, it has already been refinished, and bringing it back to blue would really make it a nice gun. It does not appear to have been shot that much.

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Richard Gillespie
FBINA 102

Ok, I have acquired some of Lee's prewar Magna stocks he just sold on ebay. I figured they were expensive, but the funds go to the guy who has this forum, so I see a bonus value. Anyway, I think I may call both Fords and David Chicoine's shops to get an idea on restoration costs.

I also thought about stripping the hammer and trigger myself with Brownells chemical plating remover, but that is just a thought. I wonder if any of the case coloring remains underneath? I do plan to leave the front sight alone, but would replace the rear blade if one becomes available.

I also appreciate everyone's advice, you have very valuable experiences that you share which facilitates my decisions with this RM and collecting SWs as a whole!

Thank you,

Blaine

Ok, I thought I found a sheard front sight for it. It was an old stock Marbles sight #32. That sight is for a Smith Target 22, I need a Marbles #35. Now for that King #111 blade. Does anybody have any of those they are willing to part with?

Thanks,

Blaine

Well it is back from Hamilton Bowen. I had it restored back as close as I could with the side plate re-engraved, new correct blade for the rear sight, re-case hardened the trigger and hammer, and a very fine sanding and polishing to get the edges sharp again. The gun was completely taken apart and put back together and test fired. I have had it back for a few months and just getting around to posting it. Hamilton did a pretty good job with it, but it still has a slight plum color to the cylinder, which is evidently the type of steel used for pre war cylinders. When I picked it up, his guy that did the bluing told me he blued the cylinder three times to get it as dark as he could.

I was lucky that Hamilton was able to restore it, he was very hesitant about taking on this type of project. However, his shop is about 2 hours from where I live which made it very convenient and I was able to talk with him a bit about taking the gun for restoration. This project was not cheap, but I wanted a nice RM for shooting and adding to my collection without spending $8k or more for it. This old gun needed restored and I apologize for the photos, but I am still learning.

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	Reg 5.jpg (65.1 KB, 806 views)

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Blaine
SWCA 3490 SWHF 586

hamilton bowen did an awesome job!

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Kris
OGCA, NRA LM

I agree with Kris.

That Girl is SWEEEEEEET. and I imagine a Hoot to Shoot

Looks great. Congrats. Did it take Bowen 4 years to complete this project or was the gun caught up in the old west mess for a period of time?

Hamilton was about 2 years or so behind before he started working on it. I guess he worked on it for several months after that and he sent off the side plate to a specialist that does the engraving. He also sent the hammer and trigger off for the case hardening. So that took a little time also and I have had it back for several months too.

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Blaine
SWCA 3490 SWHF 586

That turned out very nice, to say the least. Enjoy!

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

You have done good, sir. Congratulations on a very well appointed Registered Magnum. It looks great!