2nd post on S&W forum

[efield]

Hello All,
I have been a member since July of 2009. I read the posts on here, saturate the info and ogle the pics but I didn't have a question or comment until now. I originally posted this in the new members section as it was my first post but Dan W, the moderator, told me to post it in this section to perhaps facilitate a larger response group.

My neighbor (I've known the guy for 20 years) has an older uncle (83) that wants to sell all of his guns. The uncle's kids are non-gun people and do not want them around. The neighbor asks me if I want first crack at them. (I know, pinch me I'm dreaming)

Long story short: The guy has 25 guns in all. 3 of them are S&W revolvers. The uncle lives 200 miles away and the only thing I have to go on are a grainy Brownie Instamatic pic (I can't even really judge the barrel lengths) and the following description of the revolvers:
1. S&W 38cal dbl action SN:K295341
2. S&W "Outdoorsman" 38cal on 44 Frame SN:S81857
3. S&W 38cal dbl action SN: 405587

I'm not going to make an offer until I see them but I'd like to be at least prepared on what to expect. Any help will be appreciated.
Thanks,
efield

[P&R Fan]

I will assume the .38s are Military and Police revolvers. The K serial numbered one dates to 1957. The 405587 to sometime in the '20s (that's a guess actually, as the catalog is vague).
The Outdoorsman dates to 1951. That's the one I would be most interested in. After you see them let us know conditions and BBL lengths of the M&Ps and we can give you an idea of value. Pictures would help too.
Jim

[s&wchad]

K294,341 is an adjustable sight K frame from around 1957 (K38 Masterpiece or Combat Masterpiece).

Look at ALL the guns. Take notes on each of them and record the serial numbers, any markings, caliber, barrel length, type and amount of finish. If you have a digital camera, use it and post the pictures. Don't forget to ask about old ammo, knives, paperwork, tools and accessories. You never know what you're going to find and that's half the fun!

[JSR III]

+1 on what chad said. See if he has the boxes too. Old S&W cardbboard is worth more than gold these days and if you can purchase the gun with its original box, paper and tools, the value can rise substantially.

Don't be afraid to see what other guns he has for sale. Some of the others may be valuable as well. Since he is an older gentleman, he may also be willing to work out some payment arrangement with you. My guess is that he would rather see them go to someone that truly will care for them as opposed to a speculator just looking to turn a profit.

[dant]

yessir, many of us would love to be able to be in that 'position' and as said can be "fun" but,bottom line is you have to KNOW what you're looking at, as well as the overalll conditions (gotta be ORIGINAL conditions,not a shiny, looks like a new gun "reblue", done who knows when or by whom........)
time to make friends wth a "nearby" gun person, old timer whatever, who just "may" know a bit more of what you'll be looking at.......me,I'd have them take the guns or have someone come in and give them an appraisel or valuation ( about 3 opinions) really cause someone may be getting "screwed"..............
or take a blue book, BUT know and read the front section as to "conditions valuations & percentages,,,,,BIG MONEY difference beween a 98 % gun and a 50 % gun, or even one that has NO finish left.............
you'd be surprised, at just what you may find yourself, if you been around guns ANY amount of time, lots of this stuff rubs off, and one can usually tell what "looks right" and what s a "piece of rusted iron"<BUT again, some of those "pieces of rusted" iron may be heavons knows ONLY what,I;ve seen civil war guns rusted shut ,worth LOTS of money....common sense and a good book willbe helpful, at least you'll be helping them out with just what they may have, and may let YOU have a deal for helping them, I know, this works for us.......

Good luck, and have fun, it will be a "learning experience"........and you just may get a 'gem' or two.......

[DCWilson]

Good advice so far. Condition is everything. The first two are considered "in-demand" models. Chad identified the first one for you (K-38 Masterpiece or Combat Masterpiece, depending on barrel length). The second is a .38/44 Outdoorsman built on the short-action Model of 1950 N frame (Pre-Model 23). The last is a .38 M&P from the early 1920s, or Model of 1905, fourth change. This gun probably has fixed sights, but if it has adjustable sights it is a target model and worth a bit of a premium over the more common fixed-sight model.

Thanks for posting. Let us know what you see when you have a chance to inspect them. Good luck with your research.

[opoefc]

efield, I hate to rain on your parade, but you are in Kalifornia, which frowns on the acquisition of firearms by it's residents. If you have a valid & current Kalif. basic handgun certificate, you may acquire an "approved'" handgun at the rate of one per month, by DROSSING it through a Kalif. FFL holder who will do private party transfers for a usually exhorbinant fee, like upwards of $100+ per gun, plus sales tax. You will do this on every gun, and if you pass the background check, the dealer can deliver the gun to you. It will only take you 3 mos. to acquire the sellers 3 S&W handguns, and you can't buy any other guns during that 3 mos.. You say the seller lives 200 mi. away. Is he still in Kalif.? If not, importing the guns to Kalif. is another whole bag of worms, I won't go into here. You can apply for a Certificate of Eligability with the Dep't of Justice, cost $200 + photo & finger print fees, etc., and can take weeks to months to receive, and it will exempt you from the 10 day waiting period and the one gun a month rule. Due to Kalif.'s broke condition, the DOJ is not moving very fast on items that don't bring in bigger revenue. Also, remember Kalif. does not recognize the ATF classifications on firearms for the purpose of transfers. There's only two classes. (1) Guns that are percussion muzzleloaders, and (2) guns that aren't, which is any gun that can chamber a cartridge, regardless of how old it is. Catagory two requires DROSSing and registration. Both a buyer and the seller are risking felony, and or misdeamer, charges, should any of these guns change ownership through any other method tha what is legally allowed by the Kalif. Penal Codes. If the seller is knowledgable about Kalifornian gun laws, and if he is an old time collector he probably is, he won't want to take the time, trouble & risk of individual transfers and should put his collection up for auction at a recognized Auction house that will handle all the legal paperwork and transfers for him. Hope this helps! Ed.

[efield]

Thank you for your responses. I appreciate you folks taking the time and effort to share your knowledge with me.

I did meet the gentleman out at our airplane hangar a year or so ago. He was a military pilot in the 50's and I understand he flew in Korea. Marines I believe. Sharp as a tack as I recall and I expect his stuff to be "squared away." I have some trouble believing his kids are such "bleeps". I know this must be hard for him.

I will take pictures of everything and will look at everything he must part with. I didn't mention the other guns I was interested in as this is a S&W forum. He also has a Walther PPK, an older 3 screw Blackhawk, an '03 Springfield, a military surplus .30 cal carbine, a pre '64 Winchester '94 in 30-30, a 30-40 Krag, several .22 rifles and several 12ga shotguns. ( I did recognize a Browning Auto-5 and a Browning Superposed in the pic as well)

I won't get into the paperwork issue here but he does live in Kali as do I and my FFL guy is pretty much "on it". Says it shouldn't be too much of an issue.
Thnaks again and kind regards,
efield

[P&R Fan]

Those long guns sound like they are quite collectible too, and valuable if in good condition. If you're not as knowledgeable on them please check with some TRUSTED collectors. For that matter, post those pictures and details on here too. A lot of us know about guns other than S&Ws.
Jim

[inyomono]

I would find the "Outdoorsman" the most interesting if it was in particularly good condition. Otherwise, I reiterate what others have said above.

Check the M1 Carbine. Condition? S/N? Bayonet lug or not? Armory rebuilt? Who made it?--if Winchester or Rock-Ola, the price is more. If it is a Commercial Controls Corporation carbine, speak to me first and no one else.... ;-)

inyomono