Have an old DA 45. Looks like it was manufactured around 1923-24.
The finish is in pretty bad shape, but it functions well. Is there any collector value? It's not military.
I may just give the owner $100 clean it up and use it as a shooter
Are these the correct grip?
There is a threaded hole for a lanyard ring. Just looking for general info.
Thanks.

It's rough but still worth more than $100. If that's what he said he wants he's being foolish unless he owes you a favor. If that's what you're telling him it's worth you're not the best friend in the world.

Yeah, unless the barrel is heavily pitted or there are mechanical problems it is worth at least $250. And no those are mid 60's or later grips so they are not original.

I had a dealer tell me it's worth about $150 and offered $100.

That doesn't sound like the kind of dealer I would care to do business with. That looks to be a 45 Hand Ejector Model of 1917. It should shoot .45 ACP in moon clips or .45 Auto Rim.

As long as it passes function test, is a good shooter and mechanically sound, most the guys on this forum would think they were getting a very good deal if the paid $350 for it at a gun show.

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My sgntr is mor thn 30 chrctrs

Thanks.......

I need a minimum of 10 characters to post?

Do a search for "1917" and you will get LOTS of threads.

A 1917 was my first S&W, bought for use as a police duty gun when I was a 22 year old deputy sheriff. I've owned and shot a number of them over the years.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

So, I have done some more research and did get to shoot her.
It's a 1937 Brazilian. Again, the finish is so bad that I can only read 1937 and very, very faintly make out a small section of the Brazilian stamp. After getting used to the long pull I was able to get some very nice groups without too much trouble
The ejector rod is slightly bent also. It will function, but will slightly bind and needs to be pushed back in with a finger.
I ended up getting this pistol and a SS Security Six .357 for $400. They look like they were shot in the 60s or 70s and just put on a basement shelf for 30 or 40 years.

My question is should I get the DA 45 refinished? I would love to see it Parkerized.

Collector value on 1937 Brazillians isn't that high. If I got the kinda deal you got , I definately have it glass beaded and parkerized.

Ya first might want to see what she looks like cleaned up a bit. Take the grips off and apply some Hoppe' No.9 or Kroil to the rust , let it set a bit , and then take some 4-O steel wool to it.

Hmmm...me thinks it is a 1917 commercial and not a Brazillian. I don't see a Brazillion crest and I do see a small S&W monogram on the left side.

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Bill Bates

If it does have a Brazilian crest on it, and it's really hard to tell from those photos, I would look for an import mark on the barrel flat or under the stocks. Personally, I would not spend the money to have it refinished, but that's just me.

Nice find. I would not refinish either. The grips are not original as was said but make for a better shooter with them than the original service grips. Have you checked the chambers to see if it's been reamed for 45 Colt?

I use 0000 brass wool instead of steel wool. It'll look a lot better once you clean up. I have original used ejector rods for $10 if you want to replace yours.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

I also wonder about the Brazilian identification, though it is possible this is a mix-and-match gun that ended up with a Brazilian side plate. I looked closely at the right side photo and couldn't make out any Brazilian seal detail. The rest of the gun does not look overpolished to me, so if the seal was there but is now mostly missing, its removal was intentional.

Brazilians had the small S&W logo on the left side.

Check the serial number on butt, barrel flat, and rear of cylinder. Also on the vertical face of the yoke and underside of the ejector star, if you can read those without disassembling the revolver. They should all match, but may not. Brazilians can have parts that migrated in from some other revolver.

As you heard, the stocks are only 40 years old or so, and are not original.

The two guns for $400 was great buy. You did not lose money on this no matter how the final identification shakes out. We're just trying to get the right identity as an academic exercise at this point.

Can you tell us the serial number? (Or at least all but the last two digits -- x those out if you want to.)

There was a postwar Brazilian contract that, paradoxically, used earlier 1920s frames. Those had the large ejector rod knob. Possibly your gun is from the 1946 Brazilian contract. They were also marked with the Brazilian stamp that incorporated the 1937 date.

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David Wilson

Thanks all, I'll go look real close for # etc. There was a Brazilian stamp.
I know now by seeing ones in better shape on this site.. It almost looks like it was rusted and in the cleaning process 90% of the Brazilian stamp was removed.

I've cleaned it a little more. Maybe I can get a nice finish with some elbow grease. The Brazil stamp is a little more visible.



I have no problem posting the serial #s The butt, rear of cylinder and barrel flat all match. There is also a "B" on the bbl flat. I assume that's for Brazil. 198995
There is a different # on the frame where the cylinder locks up. 32883


So what do I have? I'm definitely keeping it as a shooter. I'll clean it some more and if I get a few dollars ahead maybe have it bead blasted and Parkerized.

Most of the 1938 shipment of Brazilian 1917s were in the 181983-207043 serial number range. Yours should have a flattened top strap with a square notch rear sight.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

The odd number in the crane is an assembly # that will match the number on the inside of the sideplate.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

That is probably what the dealer would like to get it for to make an easy hundred selling it.

It' a war horse and it looks like it. I think it's cool as he!!.

You guys are right. Get some bronze wool and get rubbing.

The B on the barrel is for blue finish.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

In this instance the B on the barrel is for "brass" as in 0000 Brass Wool. Clean it and shoot it, but don't refinish it-- it'll rob the gun of all its character.

Since I'm pretty ignorant anyway, I'll just say "Whatever you decide,
it's gonna look Great! You have done well. Now, after you decide what you want, how about a range report? I'd love to hear how it performs,
maybe a pic of a 15- 0r 20-yard target? Thanks for sharing, TACC1.

I'm with Cavaliere and the others. Rough as it may be, I'm of the opinion that that's original finish on this gun. Clean it gently, oil it, and let it tell its own story! Refinish this gun and you'll knock a great deal of character out of it.
JMHO

Larry

I agree with most of what has all ready been stated. This is an old workhorse and was never meant to be a pretty safe queen. Refinishing will only destroy any character that the gun has remaining.

This is one of those guns that has "been there" and "done that". Clean it and oil it to stop further rusting and take it to the range and shoot it. I have a Model of 1917 club gun that I just acquired that was delivered to the Ordance Department Captain in charge of overseeing S&W 1917 production during WWI at the Springfield Armory. It will never get shot, so you can shoot for both of us.

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James Redfield
LM #497

CJ,

I think what has caused some to speculate that you have a commercial model is that there is no lanyard ring. I noticed two things in your picture. One was the "Made in USA" on the right side of your frame; I know the Brazilian contracts had this, but am unsure if the commercial model did. I know the original issue Model 1917s did not. Check and see if the lanyard ring hole is present, but I am also unsure if the original commercial issues had a lanyard ring or didn't, but I don't believe they did. The other thing I noticed is that the side plate does not look to be original. S&W polishes the sideplates to the frame, back then and today. You can see that the bevels above the trigger guard from frame to sideplate do not seem to match; I looked at my 1917 today and could see that the match was perfect, and so am suspect your sideplate is original. The lanyard ring (or none) should also be an indicator. It may simply have been removed. Whichever you have, it's a keeper, whether or not you decide to refinish it or not is up to you. I also suspect it has been refinished as the inscriptions look like they may have been polished at some point, in which case refinishing it would not be a big problem to collector's value; have a good gunsmith look at that closely. If it does have a replaced sideplate, that could also change it's value quite a bit. Are you sure the ejector rod is bent, or does it just need to be screwed in all the way? A friend of mine has a Brazilian, and the ejector rod likes to unscrew itself after some firing, which causes binding. Some disassembly and cleaning remedied the problem easily.
Quite a few people prefer the Brazilians as they were supposed to be heat treated and the original M1917s were not. Either way, I think you got a good deal and have a good shooter on your hands. I am a big fan of the 1917s, and am happy to have one of my own. Although those service grips are a lot easier on the hands, I really like the period grips; you can find repro's everywhere if you are interested.

M2MikeGolf,

Lanyard ring:
Poster indicated the ring is gone but "it has a threaded hole" for one. Lanyard rings were common on the Commercial models of that era per SCSW since most were made from left over 1917 frame inventory and already drilled for them. I believe the sideplate is original and can be confirmed when removed. It will have the same assembly # as stamped in the yoke.

Heat treated cylinders:
All 1917s did have heat treated cylinders and were the 1st Smiths to have them since it was a requirement of the original government contract.

Made In USA stamping:
Commercial models of the Brazilian pre war time frame would also have this stamping.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Sorry Jim, missed the posters mention of the threaded hole. I also had misunderstood about the heat treated cylinders, thought I had read that only the Brazilians were done. What about S&W logo stamps? Did both the Brazilians and Commercials have them on the left side frame? Were some Commercial models made from frames not originally from the initial U. S. Government contract?

I agree with M2MikeGolf, when I first looked at the sideplate to frame joint, I thought it looked a bit odd. Could be the photo or it could be that they didn't spend as much time fitting sideplates for the Brazillian order. Removing the sideplate and checking the assembly number would answer that question.

I know that I have seen spare sideplates for sale over the years and I believe that I have seen some for the Brazillian model. The wear pattern on the sideplate seems to match the wear of the gun so if it is a replacement, then they picked a good one.

Regardless of the real story, and we may never know for sure, if the gun functions OK then you have a good shooter and should have a blast with it. (Pun intended)

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James Redfield
LM #497

"One was the "Made in USA" on the right side of your frame; I know the Brazilian contracts had this, but am unsure if the commercial model did. I know the original issue Model 1917s did not."

I have a commercial 1917, SN 180xxx, that shipped in January 1936, and it has the "Made in USA" on the right side of the frame. It is built on the older round top frame.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

My commercial also has it. It is also in the 180xxx range but it letters as shipping in September of 1928.

My Brazilian has the small logo on left side and Commercial models were reported to have as well. Pre war commercials are pretty rare and probably assembled from original military production frames, albeit prior to government inspector stamping. After WW II 991 S&W logo marked commercial models, many with lanyard rings, were made from some 10,000 military frames/parts purchased back by S&W, according to some sources.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

I finally got around to ordering a few moon clips. Thinking of going head to head with the auto guys next Thr.
After a complete clean up I'm really starting to like this revolver.

Guess it's time to buy a moon clip tool.

What can you recommend for loading/demooning tools?

Just an added thought, the hole bored thru the butt for the lanyard ring is usually filled with a soft metal as in lead. It is really simple to clean out the hole and install the ring. Rings and pin are available for $20 or less and will bring the old shooter back to origional configuration. I think Gun Parts Corp. has them. Looks like a great shooter. I have 2 Brazilians and the shoot great. Enjoy!

Yeah, at 1st I thought it was threaded, but after a good cleaning I saw the roll pin. I would definitely like to get a ring for it.

"What can you recommend for loading/demooning tools?"

I have a demooner that I bought from Brownells. It looks like a nut driver with a hollow shaft. It holds six (6) empty .45 ACPs.

I have never had any problem just snapping .45s into the full moon clips.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

I bought a pack of Wilson moon clips. I can hardly get some of the rounds in, and I'm a fairly awesome dude ;-)

"I bought a pack of Wilson moon clips. I can hardly get some of the rounds in, and I'm a fairly awesome dude ;-)"

I just got out a new Wilson full moon clip and a reloaded round of WCC 77 brass. I placed the cartridge on my bench, pushed down with the clip, and it snapped into place.

I must be more awesome than you.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Everybody's awesome if you use the poly RIMZ clips. No tool necessary -- fingers do it all. Those are what I use to load my 1917s.

Check out Poppert's Gun Parts for parts. He has a great selection of 1917 pieces. Can't recall if he has any original stocks, but he might. Also check out Numrich. I think they have 1917 stocks.

Of course to be completely correct, you would want checked diamond service stocks for a Brazilian. To shoot it you might not want them, as they can be uncomfortable. I have had both Herrett's target stocks and some Pachmayr presentation grips on mine. Both are completely anachronistic, but they sure make shooting easy.

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David Wilson

I took her to the range for our Thr. night combat shoot. I did out shoot some autos. 1st time out, I was pretty psyched.
I'm thinking of tossing the 1911 in the dumpster and going wheelgun.

Good save! I would recommend that you shoot only standard pressure ammunition in your old warhorse. I have a Brazilian (s/n 201735) I have owned for years and mostly shoot Federal red box American Eagle 230 grain FMJ through it. Or, my handloads using Speer's 230 grain TMJ round nose. Or some of the old Hornaday FMJ 'truncated (?) cone' sort of flat-nosed 230 grainers I loaded up 20 years ago and am still shooting. I use either 6.5 grains of Unique or 6.2 grains of Winchester 231 with 230 grain jacketed bullets to pretty much duplicate factory hardball velocities.

My Brazilian and an older commercial S&W 1917, shipped 1930, seem to shoot 230 grain jacketed bullets better than anything else I have tried. Both guns also shoot the hardball loads closely to point-of-aim at 25 yards for me. The small sights make my eyes work harder but often pay off with good group sizes.

To speed up loading moon clips, I insert the shaft of a small screwdriver into the hole in the center of the clip and press down with the tool to snap the cartridge into the clip. Much easier on my fingers. I use either the hollow tube-type unloader from Brownells or a plastic pliers-type tool marked only with "DEMOONER" to empty the empties.

I shot a lot of .45 ACP in some of my revolvers this summer, as a break from a 1911 Commander I was reworking. The Brazilian, the commercial 1917 and a Model 25-2 with a 4 inch Davis Co. of Sacramento very heavy barrel and a tremendous double action pull went in the bag for every range trip. I actually enjoyed shooting the 1917 and 1937 guns single action for tight groups and busting up clay pigeons on the backstop a whole lot more than shooting the 25-2 fast!

Enjoy your Brazilian. They can shoot better than a lot of people ever imagine, and are really shooter-friendly.

Just ordered a lanyard ring from Numrich.

CJKARL I saw a copper pipe demooning tool that was listed here on this site. I made one and it worked awesome. It was cheap and easy to make. I had the pipe just sitting around the house.

Use some copper pipe with 1/2" internal diameter, cut a section about 1/4" deep and about halfway across, leave it about 8" log and glue an elbow to the other end. You can then pop all 6 empties out and it will hold the in the tube as you empty it.

Bummer, got a gift card for Christmas and just ordered one from Dillon. Was pretty cheap though. $16

You guys are making me think I need to pick up a 1917 this year. I've been looking around for an old Fitz Special, but don't ever see them. Maybe I'll just go with a stock one in roughish shape like the OP. I do see those once in a while. Thanks folks!

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Even older, even crankier....

I'm shooting 230gn. FMJ Winchester white box. Seems VERY accurate. I have a couple moon clips loaded with hollow points for "just in case".

Proper butt swivel came today.