I went and looked at a 4" 1950 Target today. I was told it was all original, owned by an old-time collector, he owned it for >20 years, and that the only negative was that the correct period grips which were not SN'd to the gun. I drove almost an hour to buy it, and as soon as I opened the case, I went "ugh"....my first impression from the roll marks were that it was a cut 6.5" gun. It looks like the pin may have been removed because there is a small mark just under the pin on the left side of the gun. The edge of the muzzle is not sharp, but it is "Crisp". It seemed as if it should have been a bit more rounded. The finish is a solid 98%+


I always trust my gut. Any opinions? He gave me today to think about it.

Mine looks exactly like that...



and I know it was cut before being installed. Sorry the picture isn't better but you can see the location of the roll mark even though it's out of focus.

Dave

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RSVN '69-'71
PCSD (Ret)

I say cut based on the off-center rollmarks. I can't be sure from this angle, but it also looks as though the rib and front sight run all the way to the muzzle. They should stop just slightly back to allow for a good crown. In addition, the front sight block is sunk pretty low in the rib, and the leading edge of the rib needed to be beveled in order to keep it from riding higher than the rear edge of the replaced sight block.

I guess this might be original if someone ordered a 4" gun from the factory and people there just modified one they had in stock rather than make up a four-inch barrel from scratch, but that feels unlikely to me.

My take is that you were wise to trust your gut. Four-inch pre-24s exist, but they are scarce. If you want to roll the dice, I would say you should buy it only with the agreement that there is a right of return if the gun does not letter as having been shipped in that configuration.

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David Wilson

I am by no means an expert but in my opinion, it's cut.
Looks to be a good job though. I'd like to have it and if the price reflects it, I'd prolly buy it.

Which pin? The barrel pin?

ALWAYS get pics of the muzzle crown when you want an opinion on a cut barrel.

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

I'm with the others - it's been cut. However, if you can get him to move off the price, the 4" .44 Special is a real joy to shoot ! I've got three.

Larry

It looks cut... BUT... it may have been cut by S&W before leaving the factory as a special order if a 4" barrel wasn't immediately available. Or maybe the stampings are just off a bit. You need the letter to be certain.

I always say the same thing regarding rare variations. I will say it again.

I would not buy a rare gun without the letter (unless priced as a modified gun). I would not drive to look at a rare gun if the seller didn't have the letter. I can't imagine any rare S&W not having the letter with it if it is original.

$1500

It's just that a lot of people do not letter guns. Some of these old-timers do not even know what a letter is or that one is needed....I thought it was worth the drive.

Lee...I was thinking about that afterwards but I just snapped them as he was about to drive away.

One of my grail/favorite guns...balloon burst today.

Thanks for the input.

yes it has been cut

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The absence of pain is...death

What is the approximate serial number?

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S&WCA 1729

Here's one that is an original 4" gun that is near new in the box.

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Dick

I am indeed a lucky man because I have a new unfitted 4" barrel in my warbag.Mine does not have a red ramp and does not show the two pins holding the ramp base onto the rib as does rck281 pics above.The slight undercut of the rib to lower the ramp is exactly like mine and the lettering on both sides of the barrel are the same as rck281s above.With a 10x loupe I can see one pin [must be two?] where rcks' is but it is so finely fitted that it is very hard to detect.In fact the whole ramp is so well fitted to the rib that the join line is hard to see. I have had several 24,s over the years that have been cut to 4'' and as best I remember they were very similar to the OPs showing a slight gap or miss match at the join line. I believe these are typical of revolvers returned to S&W for shortening.So, the question to me is always not has it been cut but rather is this a factory cut? Remember Skeeter Skelton told of sending several Mod.27s back to be shortened at S&W and IIRC he might have done the same with a couple of Mod. 24s.If you want a great fun and a serious gun don't worry about it. If you must have a documented factory 4" and you find out yours isn't PM me ! I can always use another! Nick

What is the approximate value of this gun? I have no idea on pricing when it comes to modified guns.

From your pics, it looks nice but IMO and unless substantiated otherwise, that gun is only a shooter... albeit a desirable one though.
I doubt the seller would ever take what I'd offer but $650-$800 is prolly it depending on grips, condition, etc. But I'm finickey that way. That, and the price they bring these days, is prolly why I don't get to buy many S&W's anymore.

Sir.
Here is a couple pics. Both are well worn examples.

I have one that I know to have been cut and modified other places.


This one I think has original barrel length.


Bill@Yuma

I was reading this thread for the 3rd or 4th time. I finally came to the conclusion it doesn't matter if the barrel was cut or not (it clearly has been cut). The value to the collector crowd in nil (I'm a part of that group, kind of). The value to the shooter crowd is low, but better because the "unkind" cut makes it more available to them.

Its a gun that, depending on the serial and a close inspection, might be worth $4000 if original and with a low serial. To the shooting and abuse crowd, its worth $500-600 for its utility. All because of the mis-centered roll stamp. I'd even say its not worth getting lettered. Even with a factory letter telling us it came that way, no collector in his right mind would spend much to own it.

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Dick Burg

I'm a collector of shooters so my comment is from that perspective. Several have said, as a cut down gun is it only worth $500-$600. I have to wonder how your thinking works to arrive at a price like that?

A 4" Model 24-3 is going to sell for way more than that. I personally would much rather have a 5-screw than a 1980s version of the N-frame 44 Special. In my neck of the woods (OK - desert) you just don't see hardly any N-frame S&W for under $500. I'm willing to bet a 5-screw 44 Special, even a cut down one but with a 4" barrel, would not be found on a dealer's selves for much under $1000...and I bet it would sell for that too.

Dave

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RSVN '69-'71
PCSD (Ret)

Hi:
The barrel has been cut.
A guy I know had a Model 1917, Model 1950 Target, and a Model 25-2 cut to four inches at different times.
Normally the barrels were cut a mite more then four inches (4- 3/8"?)

As JimmyJ stated above...

I've cut a few my ownself, here's one from 30 years ago.
If'n ya cut 'em to hold the rollmarking kinda centered up - they'll run out about 4 1/2" to 4 3/4".


I've toted this'n several miles and several years ahorseback.

(Barrel & Cylinder now installed on a 27 frame)




Su Amigo,
Dave

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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

I recently sold a 5" cut down 1950 Target in bright blue on the Forum for $850. It was an excellent gun with very good finish.

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Dick

And that's a bit more than the $500-$600 someone tried to say this gun is worth, now isn't it! (smile)

Dave

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RSVN '69-'71
PCSD (Ret)

"I've toted this'n several miles and several years ahorseback.

(Barrel & Cylinder now installed on a 27 frame)"

That's a nice one, Dave. Is that a Patridge sight modified into a ramp?

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Yup, it is.


Su Amigo,
Dave

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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

I recall Lee's thread last month showing a pre 24 4 inch, with the rollmarks on the left side being way off center.I would not say for sure it was cut after it shipped from the factory.

The roll marks would be identicle as the OP's gun if this 6.5" was cut,
Notice the "N" in S&W ends even with the front of the ejector rod.



The OP's gun below, notice the whole word "SMITH" is ahead of the lug, Lees gun just has the "SM" ahead of it.


The roll marks are a bit further forward than Lees 4" which is posted below.

I have a 4 inch pre 24 that has the sight block and blade dead flush at the muzzle.People that say there always set back are incorrect. On lee's gun the rib is recessed for the sight block Just like the one shown by the op.I say it is very possible the gun shipped with a 4 inch barrel.DSC_0006.jpg

I see your point with the block, but your roll marks are centered on the pictured gun, which was my main concern.

4 screw,I would look at the roll marks on lee's 4 inch pre 24.I would post a link to his thread If I knew computers.Mike

Lees gun below with the link to the thread .

Interesting Anomaly - 4 inch 1950-44 Target

Compare the relationship of the roll marks to the ejector rod tip and lug.

I agree 100%. "My" gun is clearly farther forward than Lee's. Thanks to everyones hard work here...posting pics...taking pictures with rulers...researching for me. I appreciate your efforts.

So, are we all agreed it was cut? Well-cut, but cut nevertheless?

Speaking as one of the "shoot and abuse crowd"(?), I'd say you hit the nail on the head. But let's keep it a secret, eh? Keeps the prices the down.

armchair gun show has a 4 inch pre 24 that was cut down from a longer barrel.The rollmarks on that gun are perfectly centered on the barrel like mine.I say anything is possible from the s&w factory.Here is a picture of the side of mine.DSC_0013.jpg

DSC_0012.jpg

Wells,

More fodder for the grismill,

Roll marks are what they are, it seems...







From factory letter,

"Smith & Wesson .44 Hand Ejector Model of 1950 Target,
Model, .44 Hand Ejector Fourth Model, Special Barrel
Length, caliber .44 S&W Special....The records indicate that
this handgun was shipped with a 5 inch barrel..."

I'd hazard a guess, that if this one had been special ordered with a
4 inch barrel rather than a 5 inch the rollmarks would be the same.

Jest goes to show, ya never can tell

Su Amigo,
Dave

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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

Just wanted to add that I posted the pictures to compare the roll marks from a known 6.5" barrel with those of a Known 4".

Im not saying the OP gun is or is not original.

And that is exactly why it would be bought as a 'shooter' without a letter!

D R