This is my first post, so if it isn't quite up to snuff, forgive me. I have a DA45 that I'm trying to get some information on. There is no serial number or any other marking on the grip base. The gun is nickel plated (a very nice job) and the grip base is very smooth with no obvious signs of the number having been ground off. There are numbers on the front strap, crane and cylinder face, but no other markings on the frame. The barrel has the usual DA45 markings. I'm trying to figure out if I have an original gun that got out without a serial number or an illegal gun that has had the SN removed (albeit in a very professional manner). It's a beautiful gun in great condition and I'd hate to have to have it destroyed. It came from an estate auction. Any input would be appreciated.

Welcome to the forum! You say it has a # on the front strap so the frame is serialized and legal so you're good to go. It must have been re-stamped for some reason because the front grip strap is not a factory # location for that model. Does it match the cylinder # or any of the other numbers? The numbers in the crane should not match since they are factory assembly #s, not serial #s. Sorry that's about all I can tell you w/o the serial number and a photo. But it sounds like a Mod 1917 military or commercial.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Thanks Jim. The only markings anywhere on the frame are on the front strap. The letter "S" is over the number 529. This same number is on the inside of the crane. The number 7632 S is underneath the barrel and also on the cylinder face. The barrell has the usual patent, caliber and "Gov Property" markings. I wouldn't think that 529 is the serial number, especially since all of the other guns of the period were marked on the grip base. I don't have the gun with me right now, so I can't put up any pics.

Well that 7632 is the serial # and I presume matches the one on the front strap, is that correct? With gov't markings that indicates you have a very early 1917 Army revolver. After WW II an S prefix would be part of the serial # and indicates the improved hammer safety. But your S is in a suffix position. Therefore the S is not part of the serial # and is an inspector or assemblers mark if I'm not mistaken. My best guess is that whoever had the gun nickeled probably had the hole for the lanyard ring welded up, because a 1917 would have had a lanyard ring and when removed would leave a big hole. This may be why the butt number and US Army marking is gone. Under the grip a cross pin held the lanyard ring in place. Is there any evidence of a 1/16" hole in the middle of the butt or one filled with weld?

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Yes, Jim, the lanyard ring hole is still there as is the cross pin hole. No ring, just the hole. All of the examples I've seen of this gun had the SN on the grip base, but on this one, nada.

So does the 7632 serial # in other places on the gun match the # on the front strap?

Somebody may just have wanted the US Army info removed from the butt. But they usually take it off from the bottom of the barrel as well.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

No, the 7632 is on the barrel and the cylinder face and the number 529 is on the front strap and the crane.

Is the S over 529 rather small? If so , that's an inspectors stamp.

Here's what a 1917 should look like.
WWI S&W 1917 en route.....what do you think? **It has arrived...w/ more photos**

Welcome to the forum. That is truly an interesting 45 DA that you have. Certainly photos would help. Try opening the cylinder with the barrel facing away from you. Rotate the cylinder until one of the chambers is directly over the yoke (crane on COLTS) and shine a very bright flash light down the chamber. There should be a number written on the yoke and that will be the serial number of the gun. Not sure why there is no number on the butt other than as others have suggested, it was ground off and moved to the front of the grip strap. Let us know what you find.

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James Redfield
LM #497

Ok, here's my scenario of what most likely happened but it's just one of many possibilities. As I posted earlier, the grip frame butt info was removed because of someone's fear that the gun was stolen from the US Army. In their ignorance they mistook the assembly number in the yoke for the serial number and had that stamped on the forestrap so the gun had a legally #'d frame. (Colt 1917s had a US service number on their butts that was different from the actual serial # but Smith used the serial # as their gun's service number.)
They may not have ever noticed the barrel and cylinder #s were there or that they matched the butt #.
It's very common for folks not knowledgeable in early Smiths to mistake the assembly # in the yoke for the serial #, because since about the early 1960s Smiths do have the serial number stamped in the yoke as well as on the butt.

If it were my gun I would stamp the correct serial #7632 under the grip on the left side of the grip frame along the bottom edge. That's where the factory stamped it when they drilled for a lanyard ring thru the serial # stamped on the butt of a commercial gun.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Has anyone considered that the #7632 is a rebuild number and that the "S" indicates Springfield Armory? I'm not saying it is, but close-up pictures of all these markings might help decide what they really are. The rebuild number stamps were larger than the numbers inside the yoke recess, and the digits were individually stamped so that the numbers are not neatly applied. They were also located internally on the trigger and hammer.

Buck

OK..Thanks for the reply Jim. If this thing did have a number on the grip base, it was taken off very cleanly. The gun itself is in great shape except for the lack of numbering. I've heard of "lunch box" guns too, but I'm sure they are rare. Do you know if S&W stamped their logo on the military contract guns of this era?

I guess I'm using the wrong nomenclature here. I've been using the term "frontstrap" meaning the front of the frame where the crane pivot is. The numbers stamped there are smaller than the 7632 under the barrel and are obviously single stamped like you said. The 7632 under the barrel is very uniform. I'll have to take off the side plate to see if the hammer and trigger are stamped.

No, they were NOT stamped with the logo.

Uh oh, that means you do not have a legally serial numbered gun frame.
I would find someone with # stamps and stamp the # 7632 under the left grip pronto. I wouldn't bother taking off the sideplate unless you want to anyway. If you do, you'll see the 529 assembly # on the inside of the sideplate.

Did you do this as JSRIII suggested? Rotate the cylinder until one of the chambers is directly over the back side of the yoke (crane on COLTS) and shine a very bright flash light down the chamber. There should be a number written on the back side of the yoke and that should be the serial number 7632 of the gun.
Is the underside of the front end of the barrel stamped "United States Property" or have a flaming bomb stamp like in the pic below? If the answer is 'no' to both questions, you might have a commercial model or else those stampings were also removed along with the butt markings. If the answer is yes you should also have little eagle stamps over a 2 digit # on the cylinder, under the barrel and in the yoke on the frame side. Since you never mentioned them I presume they are absent as well.


Since your gun is such an early one, I would be very interested to know if the chambers have a slight shoulder (a ring) in them or are the chambers bored straight thru?

Did you have to register this gun when you got it at the estate sale and if so which number was it registered with, the 529?

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Jim
S&WCA #819