1950 Army - Out of Mothballs

tennexplorer · #1 09-17-2011, 12:35 PM

I am not a fan at all of messing with guns that are pristine or even in good original condition. However, if the firearm has been already modified or had an average or worse re-blue, then I think that, if it can be worked on for reasonable money and with reasonable effort and put to use rather than just sitting in the safe or being traded off to someone, then that work should be done. That’s why the work described below was done and why I’m writing about it. I will keep you posted on progress.

About seven years or so ago, I bought this 1950 Army from a friend and fellow board member. It was shipped in March 1952 and went originally to Gopher’s Shooter’s Supply in Minnesota. I bought it as a shooter, as it had been re-blued in an eggshell finish, but all the numbers, including the grips match. Whoever did it, did a good job, but there are a few spots of pitting that are still there under the blue. Also at some point, someone converted the half-moon front sight into a ramp. All of this had been fully disclosed during the sale; I knew what I was getting.

After I got the gun, I was happy to find the bore and all the chambers were absolutely perfect and carry-up was also. The downside was, when the gun was re-blued, the edges of the front sight were over-polished and rounded. Depending on the light, I got a different sight picture. Groups weren’t good; nor were they consistent. So it went into the safe while I figured out what I wanted to do.

In May 2005, I went to the NRA one-week S&W revolver course at Murray State College in Oklahoma. I took the 1950 as one of the guns to work on. After class one day, I asked the instructor to show me how to serrate the front sight. So I did. In retrospect, I wish I had used a finer file, but he handed me a 20 LPI file.

I have to say it was a success because the groups really settled down. In fact they were not bad at all, especially with 200 grain SWCs, which consistently approached 1.5 inches at 15 yards for six rounds. I finally had a decent front sight picture. That’s the good news; the bad news was the groups were almost 4” to the left at 15 yards. I finally saw then that the front sight was canted to the right a couple of degrees. This probably happened when it was reassembled after re-bluing. So after some more load experimentation to see if I could reduce that 4”, it went back into the safe the middle of 2006.

A few months ago I decided to thin the herd a bit. This ones number came up, but after looking at it, I decided to give it one more chance. I took it to Keith Warner, a local gunsmith, to see what he thought before I decided what I’d do with it. He turned the barrel in until it is truly at 12 o’clock and said I should go shoot it and see what that did. I took it back to the range and now it is about 2.5” to the left so it is improving.

While turning the barrel, we noticed the rear sight notch was milled off center by about 1/32” to the left. We decided if the groups needed to move further to the right he’d open up the notch on the right side to move the point of impact and to provide more light around the front sight. The square notch was actually quite small. It’s very much like a pre-war gun and is a lot smaller than my 1956 vintage Heavy Duty. So after shooting and finding out the groups are still to the left, the rear notch has been opened up to where it is centered and we estimated that would move the groups another inch to the right.

And that’s where it stands right now. As soon as I can get back to the range we’ll find out how far it still shoots to the left and if we need to turn the barrel in a little more.

Lee Barner · #2 09-17-2011, 08:58 PM

burt, nice project gun you got there. don't sell it yet. find a trap gun gunsmith and have him bend the barrel like they do on trap guns. when i first heard about this i thought the guy was pushing my leg, but he told me to look down the side of the barrel. sure enough i was turned up slightly. might be harder to do on a revolver barrel. enjoy it, aim to the right. lee

tennexplorer · #3 09-17-2011, 09:15 PM

Lee, it's not going anywhere. It's getting closer and closer to having point of aim the same as point of impact. I have heard that about the trap guns before. There's always whacking it with the babbitt bar also. I wanted to open up the rear notch anyway so I can see it.

Burt

Muley Gil · #4 09-17-2011, 11:19 PM

Burt, that's one that I really like.

tennexplorer · #5 11-19-2011, 06:33 PM

Finally, I have had a chance to work on the 1950 Army some more, but before I get started I want to explain the grips. They are a pair of N-frame Diamond Targets that I bought this summer as junkers for $8, I think. The checkering had been sanded nearly flat, but worse someone had sanded off the upper left grip to facilitate using a speed loader. It was done evenly so I finish sanded the cut area, re-cut the checkering and finished them with Tru-Oil. I also took about 3/16ths inch off the bottom which got rid of most of the dings in the grips. They came out somewhat smaller than a set originally is, and have a small swell in the middle, which is comfortable. Again, I did not tear these up originally.

Now to the 1950. I shot it after opening up the rear sight. That did not help much. It only moved the point of impact about 1/2" to the right. It does however look better as in the photo below.

Then I decided to turn the barrel in some more. I was able to move it very slightly just to the left of 12 o'clock. Not enough to be disturbing to the sight picture or to the appearance of the gun. I think it worked - or at least close enough. The load was a 200 grain SWC over American Select. The picture below is 12 rounds single action at 15 yards. The point of aim was the center of the bottom of the innermost red square. Group center is still about .5" to .75" to the left. I shot another set of groups with 230JHP Federals. That group was centered even better but was about 1.5 " high.

Hope this was enjoyable. Just goes to show if it's "already been messed with" it may be fixable and used and enjoyed rather than being stuffed somewhere.

jack the toad · #6 11-19-2011, 07:03 PM

Very interesting story and project. Thanks for sharing.

rburg · #7 11-19-2011, 07:23 PM

Interesting post about an interesting family of guns. We've adopted some strange terms (or the factory did.) Some time ago I was stumbling along at a gun show and a friend yelled at me to come over and buy his guns. The first one was a Triple Lock with a 4" barrel. It even had the correct patent junk imprinted on the side of the barrel, not the top. Its a nice old 44, but no one ever called it a "First Model Army."

Then I somehow picked off a 3rd model 44 again with a 4" tube. They want to call it a Wolf & Klar. Not a 3rd Model Army. Still a pretty good old gun.

Then maybe last Christmas (2 weeks before) I was accosted at a gun show by GF. I think he was trying to mug me or pull a quick street robbery. Anyway, along comes this guy with a gun. A quick glance revealed it had a big ole hole in the front end. So I asked to see it and it turns out to be a M1950 Army. Still with a 4" tube. I'm seeing a trend.

Except we can't get our terminology to be consistent. Nice gun you've got there. Too bad you own it and I don't.

Jim Watson · #8 11-19-2011, 07:37 PM

There was an article in Gun Digest a few years ago about bending SAA revolver barrels to zero. The author did it in lieu of "tweaking" them in the threads as described here. I have a Cimarron Arms repro that was tweaked. It shoots where it looks but the sight is noticeably off of plumb the other way from where it started.
If I had contact with the guy or maybe even the equipment and enough nerve, a little curve in the barrel would be less apparent. He used a great big arbor press, powered by a 12 ton hydraulic cylinder. Said a 2 ton would not bend a pistol barrel.

I no longer have the book since the fire, but found mention of it, an article in the 2000 Gun Digest by Todd Lofgren, ideas by Larry Mears.

tennexplorer · #9 11-19-2011, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rburg

Interesting post about an interesting family of guns.

A quick glance revealed it had a big ole hole in the front end. So I asked to see it and it turns out to be a M1950 Army. Still with a 4" tube. I'm seeing a trend.

Except we can't get our terminology to be consistent. Nice gun you've got there. Too bad you own it and I don't.

I wish this one had a 4" tube instead of the 5 and 1/2". I considered for a while rebarreling with a Model 22-4. Dick, you probably would not want it. It's been refinished (also before I owned it) and is a shooter - not collector grade.

Muley Gil · #10 11-19-2011, 09:47 PM

For some reason, it took logging into this thread three times before the pictures showed up.

Burt, nice gun and your pictures keep getting better as well.

Lee Barner · #11 11-19-2011, 10:25 PM

burt, glad you finally got it dialed in. don't take so long next time. i've lost sleep waiting for you to finish. i guess it's the way i hold N frame revolvers, but they all shoot to the left for me unless i make a conscience effort to regrip between shots. load up a nice warm .45 AR load and take it deer hunting as a back-up to the 45-70. lee

semperfi71 · #12 11-19-2011, 10:48 PM

Interesting and informative thread for me, thanks.

I have had my gunsmith turn a lot of barrels on my Colt SAA's, Colt clones, and Remington 1875 clones.

However I often wondered if that would work on a S&W because of the "marriage" of the ejector rod and locking apparatus on the barrel.

I do know that it sometimes takes a very minor tweak to move the point of impact at 25 yards.

Now your post confirms this is possible on a S&W.

But...so far I have been lucky all my fixed sight S&Ws shoot to point of aim.

tennexplorer · #13 11-19-2011, 11:26 PM

Lee, yeah, I'm slow but dove season and a trip to South Dakota slowed things up.
Semperfi71, you can move one a little. Why it worked with this gun was it had been disassembled previously and the barrel was not quite at 12 o'clock when I started. You have to go slow and scratching witness marks to help figure out how far you need to go and how far you have gone helps.

rburg · #14 11-20-2011, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tennexplorer

Dick, you probably would not want it. It's been refinished (also before I owned it) and is a shooter - not collector grade.

I have a pride problem. I like shooters and collectors pieces. Some guns are just so scarce you take what you can get. Better still, the shooters always come with much more affordable price tags.

They produced so few 1950 Army 44s that you just need to take any gun, any barrel length, any finish you find. There just aren't enough of them out there for everyone here on the forum to even own one. Consider yourself lucky to have yours.

Drew Perez should be along soon to gloat over his owning the only known nickel one.