A friend was given his father's minty vintage .357 Combat Magnum 4" Model 19. He has asked me to find a .22 to match it, which would be the Model 18. I believe I'm looking for a Model 18-1, -2, -3, circa 1959-69. What should I expect to pay for an 18-1, -2, -3 with diamond magnas, in box with tools and papers, and barely a drag line?

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Tom in AZ
Respect the Dingbat

Probably $700 or so, a little more the older it is.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

First finding one as you describe is going to be very very difficult. Secondly, you are probably going to have to pay north of $700 for it.

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Dick

Tom - I've picked up several in the last year at $400 to $600. Sadly no boxes. Saw one at the Casa Grande gun show last Saturday for $700 with wrong grips.
Leo

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Living a dream - S&WCA #2364

Tom, I'm sure you are aware and you should make your friend aware, the 18 will not be a true "match" for the 19. The 19 has a heavy shrouded barrel with wide rib and beefed up, heat treated frame, whereas the 18 has a tapered un shrouded barrel with a narrow rib and slightly lighter frame. The heft and balance will not be the same on the two guns as long as he knows that. The only thing they will have in common is a 4" barrel. Smith never made a heavy barrel .22LR. Before I get flamed, yes they did make the full underlug 17s, but that's a whole different gun.

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Dick

I believe they made a limited run of 4" HB no lug model 17's in the mid to late 1980's.

Yup, those too, but they would probably be harder to find than an older 18 dash one, two or three in the box.

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Dick

A Model 18-1 is going to go for a lot more than $700 in the condition you have indicated. Very hard to find. The -2 and -3 are much more common and $ 700 is about right. Good luck on the hunt, that's what makes it fun!

Gila Bender,
I just bought a minty (99.9%) 6” S&W Model 17-3 for $775. Target hammer & trigger no box or tools. I bought it to match my 3T 4” Model 19-3. With-box would have put it out of my price range. It is a God-awful lot of money to spend on a 40-year old revolver, but that is what it costs here in San Diego. And when I shot it I no longer cared how much it cost! What a sweetheart to shoot!
Recondition to your friend; look for a “nice” Model 17 or 18 to hold him over until you find his $1,000 grail gun. In the mean time SHOOT the “nice” gun and enjoy it! Be magnanimous; tell him that once you find his grail gun that you will buy the “nice” one off of him. These things are sweet! Life is too short not to shoot a good S&W .22 LR revolver!

Frank

Tom- if your buddy wants a real close .22 match for the model 19, he can get a 4" model 53 with the .22lr cylinder. With box and everything for one of those you are in the $1000-$1500 range.

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Jim
Many K and N Frames

Bill:
What's the story on that 5-Screw in the back ?
A Patridge FS on a Combat Masterpiece? Kinda Cool...

Somebody's project or factory ?

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Mitch
SWCA 2438

The Model 53 is the closest thing to a Model 19 profile fitted with a 22lr cylinder,
Problem is it has a slightly larger 22 mag bore.

My "Grail" gun is a 4" K22 with Model19 underlug barrel .

Bill that early 4" patridge CM makes me drool everytime.
I sometimes think about having Bowen make one up for me from an early Taper barrel Pre "Heavy" Masterpiece.

Tom,

Let's get specific here; is he looking for a balance and heft match or evolutionary match or a 'looks' match?

Balance and heft match:
My Pre mod 18 and 18-4 weigh 2 lbs 3.2 ozs. with TH,TT & TG.
My Mod 19-1 wieghs 2 lbs 3 ozs. with TH,TT & TG. Loading both will get them closer together or give the edge to the 19.
So they are almost exactly the same weight even though they have different style barrels. The 19 carries a little more heft out front but not noticeably much different to me.

Evolutionary match:
If he has a Pre Model 19 he'll need a Pre Mod 18 and they will match by both having 5 screw frames, diamond stocks, etc. If he has a Model 19 no dash he'll need a Mod 18 no dash and they'll both have 4 screw frames. Etc, etc.

Looks match:

As was said there is no exact match produced by Smith. I installed a Mod 53 4" barrel and Mod 48 .22 Mag cylinder in another 18 for an exact match to my 19. The .22 Mag rollmark on the 53 barrel was then correct. However I noticed no accuracy loss when I used my 22 LR cylinder.
The 4" Model 53 would look identical. But it would in itself be an expensive option especially with a .22 LR cylinder. And considerably outwiegh the 19. The HB 18 would not only still not match except for barrel contour but would also up the Mod 18 weight a little.
He can add TH, TT & TG to match.
He can achieve a perfect looks match with an .22 Combat Masterpiece and a .38 Combat Masterpiece.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

All of the posts and suggestions have been very helpful, thank you. I haven't seen the Model 19 yet to determine vintage and, from the way he spoke, I now assume that he wants a "balance and heft match." He is not a collecter of these things, but enjoys shooting a 4" model 629 and 4" 686. If the Model 19 were mine, I'd go with period or evolutionary match. I'm going to poke around the Crossroads show this weekend when I can take time away from our tables. Thanks again, everyone.

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Tom in AZ
Respect the Dingbat

IN A BUCKET??!!

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Endeavor to persevere. <><

"Hondo 44 said " Evolutionary match: If he has a Pre Model 19 he'll need a Pre Mod 18 and they will match by both having 5 screw frames.

Jim, I am pretty sure there were no 5 screw Combat Magnums (Pre 19's) only 4 screw guns up until the dash 2
which began the 3 screw guns.

One more route to make a 22lr Model 19 look alike would be to remove the extra barrel material from a 17-6 full underlug.

Making a 22lr is not impossable but matching a model 15 and 18 is the easiest and cheapest solution.

I have a pre 18 and a 67-1.I call it "black and white" and
close enouhg.Both shoot great!

No! The Model 53 has a .222-inch bore, the same as the .22LR bore.

Engine49guy,
You are so right on the Mod 19 5 screw, even though 1st made in 1955 they started as 4 screw frames. Thanks for correcting me! That crossed my mind when I wrote it and meant to double check it but of course I forgot.

And removing part of the lug from a 17-6 is a clever solution!! It will have the heavy barrel contour already. The part of the shroud that's left will need a little reshaping on the sides to match the 19, but that's all hugely less trouble than a barrel change but would have to be reblued.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

That would help, but the cylinder would still be too short. A Model 53 really is a .22 caliber Model 19 because the .22 Jet is just a .357 cartridge necked down to .22 caliber. Same length cylinder, same under lug, same appearance.

According to SC of S&W,

the 4" Mod 19 and the Mod 18, both weigh in about 36 oz.

Best,
Gary

Gary;

True, but I think with the heavier barrel and wider chambers (=more weight toward the front), the model 19 balances a little more "muzzle heavy" than the model 18.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

The book is close, see post #15.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

No problem Jim,
I have been contemplating several K22 projects for quite some time (as I am sure many others have) involving a .22lr version of the Models 19 and 66.
Sent an email to Bowen arms , they seemed to think that sleeving a Model 66 barrel would work fine and achieve the same result.

Now its my turn to Fess up ,

About a year ago someone posted having accuracy difficulties with their Model 53 firing 22lr and attributed it to a larger bore diameter.
I have never actually measured the bore diameter of a Model 53 and do not have one to measure .


A quick check in the SCSW revealed nothing .

I have had a Mod 18 for many years. I bought it as a practice gun [low cost ammo] when I carried a 4" Mod 29 as a duty gun.
Even though it was lighter and a smaller frame the concept worked great, as I could shoot hundreds of rounds with out reloading, or picking up the brass.

In fact when I was in the Academy we started out shooting Mod 18's, before we went to the 38 Specials.

Also, I found it handled nearly the same as a 4" 19. Remember even though the 22 LR barrel is tapered and does not have the lug, because of the smaller bore it weighs more than a .35cal barrel.

If it will work for me and the Mod 29, it will surely work for a guy with a Mod 19...

Mike Q hooked me up with a beautiful Model 18-4, in box with tools, at the Crossroads show. Circa 1980, so it's a nice companion to a late 1970's Model 19. Very nice, thanks Mike!

And thanks again to everyone who contributed to this thread. I learned quite a bit just by asking a question.

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Tom in AZ
Respect the Dingbat