There are several Victories known having SNs fairly close to yours which shipped in February 1943, and there are many Navy-marked specimens known around that SN. So yours is likely original. Smooth grips and lanyard rings are not too hard to find and not expensive. That's a great item to find at a "ridiculously low price."
Thank you very much for the information.
Yeah, the seller was asking around $240 before coming down. About the best price I could hope for. I don't usually bargain hunt at shows, but sometimes they are out there.
Last edited by TontoKowalski; 01-24-2014 at 01:00 AM.
Hello! I have a seemingly early victory model with a serial number of V224xx. it is a 38 special. Everything has matching serial numbers including the smooth walnut grips. Would anyone know when this gun was produced? I am thinking about early 1942 or late 1941. It is a US Navy model. It is in excellent condition.
For some reason I cant put pictures of it on here but the revolver is in excellent condition it still retains 95% (if not more) of its finish. the bore is in excellent condition. and mechanically it is very solid. I have done some research and it seems the revolver has some rare features to it, for instance, according to the serial number... the 38 specials were not to common, and also sense its a navy marked revolver, the "P" marking and the "S" marking on those type of guns is more rare. Again everything has matching serial numbers and that includes the grips.
All Navy-marked Victories were in .38 Special. I don't know of any with the S marking, and certainly they never came from the factory originally with an S, as that did not start until early 1945, long after Navy marking ceased. It is possible that some of the early Navies may have later been factory-modified with the addition of the improved hammer safety, and an S stamping added to the sideplate to indicate the change. You may want to pop off the sideplate to see if that has been done. I'm not sure that would have any significant effect on value or not.
Nonetheless, in the condition you describe, and assuming originality, you shouldn't have much of a problem in realizing about $1000 for it.
The first thing to say is that my Victory Model has been utterly desecrated – as a retired Army Officer with 26 yrs of service am not responsible enough to own a live hand gun in the UK! However, I have a keen interest in this historical piece.
It conforms to all the requirements for an original Victory Model; serial numbers are all consistent (including right hand grip). Calibre is .38 S&W, but there are some things that confuse me. There are no British or Commonwealth markings of any sort (except for the deactivation mark below the cylinder on the right hand side), but there is a flaming bomb on the left top strap.
Condition is awful, and the pistol seems to have been re-parkerised at some stage. I attach some slightly “dodgy” images of the only markings visible.
Can anyone help me find out where this little beast came from?
It's not unusual to find .38/200 BSRs having no apparent British military markings. I believe the military required them to be proofed only prior to postwar civilian disposition sale, and if they were "Duffle Bag Specials," they would, of course, not have received those stampings.
Hi! I've got one marked US property HGD. Ended up in Norway with an American sailor in the 1960s. S/N V 564270.
First - what caliber is stamped on the barrel?
V 564270 would indicate likely shipment in March or April 1944. The U. S. Property stamping would indicate it was Lend-Lease if it's the British version chambered in .38 S&W (AKA .380 Revolver Mk2), or simply that it was U.S. property if chambered in .38 S&W Special, as used by U. S. military forces. The initials should be G.H.D., not H.G.D. That inspection stamp stands for Colonel, later General, Guy H. Drewry, the commander of the U. S. Army Springfield Ordnance District.
Posting pictures might elicit a better assessment.
The caliber is .38 spl. The text on the right side of the barrel is 38 S&W SPECIAL CTG. And - you're right. It is GHD
Yours looks to be correct, and in very good condition. As it's chambered in .38 Special, it is not Lend-Lease. From what I can see, the grips are of the correct type. Does the right grip panel have the same SN as stamped on the butt? You are missing the lanyard swivel loop, but those can be found and easily replaced (at least in the USA).
SN: SV772938 on three metal parts an 352331 on back of right grip
Left side of barrel: Smith & Wesson
Top of barrel: Smith & Wesson Springfield Mass. U.S.A. Patented FEB.6.06.SEPT.14.09.DEC.29.14
Right side of barrel: 38 S&W Special CTG P on frame near hammer
Right side: S&W trademark and MADE IN U.S.A
S by screw
A late war SV Victory. Without a factory letter, pinning down a shipment date on an SV is difficult, but this SN is likely to be from early 1945. SVs started at the beginning of 1945, allegedly at SV 769001 or thereabouts. Many left-over SV-prefix frames were finished in civilian form by S&W and sold on the open market in early 1946. Yours is apparently in military style, but you did not mention if it has the U.S. Property stamp on the top strap. I think that one would be an ideal candidate for a do-it-yourself Parkerizing job and refinish/replace the service grips. At least that's what I wold do with it - Bead blast and Parkerize.
A late war SV Victory. Without a factory letter, pinning down a shipment date on an SV is difficult, but this SN is likely to be from early 1945. SVs started at the beginning of 1945, allegedly at SV 769001 or thereabouts. Many left-over SV-prefix frames were finished in civilian form by S&W and sold on the open market in early 1946. Yours is apparently in military style, but you did not mention if it has the U.S. Property stamp on the top strap. I think that one would be an ideal candidate for a do-it-yourself Parkerizing job and refinish/replace the service grips. At least that's what I wold do with it - Bead blast and Parkerize.
With all the pitting up there I can see no writing.
I think I will keep it as it. It is my 1st and only US side arm.
Thank you for the information. And - yes,it's matching numbers all the way round. I found a web site that sells what they claimed to be NOS lanyard rings and original cleaning sets (in original boxes), so I ordered one of each. I posted more pictures on the "Early hand ejector" pages a couple of days ago.
I have recently received a 38 special victory serial # v 702436
My father was issued this as a pilot in WW2 flying fighters off the USS Suwannee. serial numbers match on the cyl. and the frame it has on the top strap US PROPERTY GHD On the barrel is 38 S&W special CTC Any info you have would be helpful
Thanks
Joe C
Nearby SNs have lettered as shipping in October 1944. Early Navy revolvers were stamped as U. S. Navy property, but that stopped at about SN V 267000. After that, the "U. S. Property" stamp on the topstrap was used, the same as all other military Victories. Yours is in very nice condition, and the leather is a real bonus. A great prize and a valuable family heirloom.
By the way, one of the major purposes of issuing these revolvers to Navy flight crews was for signaling, using tracer bullets.
DWalt
thanks for the info. I had not heard of the use as for tracer bullets. I had a gunsmith go through it and reports were that it was in great condition.
thanks again
Joe
All Navy-marked Victories were in .38 Special. I don't know of any with the S marking, and certainly they never came from the factory originally with an S, as that did not start until early 1945, long after Navy marking ceased. It is possible that some of the early Navies may have later been factory-modified with the addition of the improved hammer safety, and an S stamping added to the sideplate to indicate the change. You may want to pop off the sideplate to see if that has been done. I'm not sure that would have any significant effect on value or not.
Nonetheless, in the condition you describe, and assuming originality, you shouldn't have much of a problem in realizing about $1000 for it.
Do you think it would increase the value if I got a letter for it form Smith and Wesson?
Do you think it would increase the value if I got a letter for it form Smith and Wesson?
I'd have mixed feelings about lettering it. I would assume you might be able to get your $50 back, and possibly a little more, if the letter accompanied the revolver. It probably won't tell you much beyond the shipping date, and that it was sent to some Navy depot, plus the usual boilerplate background babble.
S&W Victory Model - U.S. Maritime Commission revolver
Hello. I have a United States Maritime Commission Contract pistol. Sent to Reading, PA., Serial no. V491221. I just received my letter from S&W yesterday. My questions to those of you with more savvy than me is, was this then used by the Merchant Marines, or who? Does it command more value than the standard military issue? BTW, the barrel is not marked U.S. Property. I can post pictures later if anyone wants, but it is all there and original, in great condition as well. Sent to the Commission on Jan 13, 1944. Thanks in advance! Allen
S&W Victory Model - U.S. Maritime Commission revolver
hello! wow! Thanks for the information! I should be able to post photos and the letter this evening. I am hoping to get a rough or better idea of the value of it. Allen
Please do. The USMC revolvers were sent to various locations, but I don't think I have known of one going to Reading PA. But I have no idea what all the shipping destinations were. Hoboken, Charlotte, and San Francisco are also known, and there may well be many more.
The USMC revolvers are believed to not have any property markings when first shipped, just like DSC revolvers, and those that have USMC markings are considered suspicious.
Value will be somewhat dependent upon its condition, but even in poor condition, it will bring a premium price vs. a run-of-the-mill Victory.
Yours appears to be in excellent condition, except the grips seem to have been varnished. That's not too serious. Is there a matching SN stamped on the rear side of the right grip panel? That could affect value somewhat negatively if not.
I'd say that with not much trouble you could probably get a grand out of it, maybe more, as you have a factory letter affirming it was sent to USMC. These just don't turn up for sale, so I have no idea what the recent sales price history is. Hopefully someone is more current than I on the going rate for one like this.
I would like to add one that I picked up last week,A 5in Victory in 38S&W S#= V6496xx with BAVARIA MUNICIPAL
POLICE on left side, Right side=S&W trade mark + made in USA
Under barrel is correct ssn with V and P stamp,top left side in front of hammer is the same P and is all very nice
Later shore
I would like to add one that I picked up last week,A 5in Victory in 38S&W S#= V6496xx with BAVARIA MUNICIPAL
POLICE on left side, Right side=S&W trade mark + made in USA
Under barrel is correct ssn with V and P stamp,top left side in front of hammer is the same P and is all very nice
Later shore
That would have left the factory in the Summer of 1944. Many Victories are found with German and Austrian police markings, as supplied by the allies to civil police forces during the postwar occupation period.
Hey Everyone,
First post here. I've had a S&W Victory for several years and thought it is about time I found out something about it. I'll try to post several pics I have below. If that doesn't work I'll provide a link to a Fototime folder with the pics. The revolver's serial number is V663410. There is also a "P" stamped on the cylinder and barrel after the serial number. It has a 5" barrel. It has been milled for the .38S&W. The barrel, receiver, cylinder and right grip match. There is also an "E" stamped on the bottom of the right grip. It is US Property G.H.D. marked on the left top strap. I'm assuming from what I've read here that this is a Lend Lease weapon sent to one of the Commonwealth countries. Is there any way of determining which one? I have not requested a letter on this example. Think I should? Any information you could provide about this great revolver would be appreciated. Thanks in advance!
"It has a 5" barrel. It has been milled for the .38S&W."
I assume you mean the original .38 S&W chambers have been bored to accept .38 S&W Special cartridges. Many of these Victory .38/200s met that fate in the years following WWII. But that pretty well negates any collector interest. Yes, it was made for the British Commonwealth during WWII, and it is Lend-Lease. Those were marked "U. S. Property." Yours probably shipped August or September 1944. You will not learn much from a letter. Save your $50.
Thanks for the quick response, DWalt. But I'm not sure that I understand. From reading this forum, it is my understanding that most, if not all of the Lend-Lease Victory models were modified for the .38/200 round as that was the round used by the Enfield and Webley revolvers. Are you saying that the only Victory model of collector's interest is not Lend-Lease and is not .38/200? My interest, as a C&R collector, is that it is an all matching, wartime manufactured S&W that was shipped to the Commonwealth specifically for their use, was modified there to suite their needs, may have seen active combat service, was returned to the US and somehow made it into the inventory of VAM Distributing Co in Wooster, OH. Which of the Victory models, then, are of collector's interest?
Three additional questions: Does anyone know what the "P" indicates on the cylinder and barrel near the serial number?
Does anyone know what the "E" indicates that is stamped onto the bottom of the right grip?
Are there any markings generally found on Victory models indicating their country of use: Canada, South Africa, Australia, Great Britain, etc.
Thanks again.
I have inherited Smith and Wesson Victory Model with serial number v219125. the Gun in is good shape. Not sure when was
manufactured or anything or value, however I am trying to determine the value before selling it. Im not a gun collector or
anything, only need the two that I currently have for my protection. Could anyone shed light on this victory model, value,
manufacture date etc? The gun also has a US Navy marking on the top
Thanks. Great forum
Thank you so much. I see the matching serial number in all the places you described except the grip panel, I think you are referring to the wooden handles. Ok, I am going to pursue a collector or someone to take off my hands for a few hundred
dollars and seems it shouldn't be a problem, to help pay estate off. This site is great.
Hi,
I would like to contribute to your database and share with others.
I have a .38/200 S&W SN#736774 with the letter P stamped on the butt
Mr Jinks has told me that this revolver was shipped in Feb of 1941. I do not have any other details other than that.
I would like to know about the arrow located on the top right of the receiver in the photo. Anybody? If anyone else has info/comments, please share.
I bought this with original ammo dating from about the 1950's
Rob
Edited:
The barrel shows wear, possible from being excessively holstered?
I can't add a great deal. From the SN, the 2/41 shipping date appears correct. The marking is likely the British Ordnance "Broad Arrow" stamping, indicating Crown ownership. It appears that there is a partial circle around the broad arrow. Other similar markings I have seen do not have a circle. Canadian guns have a broad arrow inside the letter C, but I don't think that is what this one is. Others may be able to better identify this specific broad arrow marking. In any event, it is a property marking.
There is likely no way to trace where yours went after it left the factory, as it could have ended up anywhere on the globe. A factory letter ($50) would provide the first location shipped, but even that could be misleading, as they were often sent elsewhere. The British shuffled their firearms around a great deal, according to where the need was greatest.
At this time, the .38/200 military order revolvers were finished identically as civilian revolvers, including a bright blue (Carbonia) metal finish and checkered wooden grips with medallions. During the time period when yours was made, S&W was producing very few guns aside from .38/200 revolvers for the British Commonwealth. Yours appears correct for the period, and was made prior to the Lend-Lease Act of 1941, so it was actually purchased for gold, or possibly as part of a "rebate" program, where S&W provided revolvers in lieu of a cash refund for a failed 9mm automatic carbine contract S&W had with the British.
Collectors call these revolvers "pre-Victories" as they were produced for foreign military use prior to the adoption of the V (for Victory) serial number prefix. Those Victory model revolvers started shipping about the middle of 1942. Hopefully, its chambers have not been bored to accept .38 Special ammunition. The .38 S&W cartridge was the official revolver cartridge adopted prior to WWII. There were two varieties, the .380 Revolver Mk1 and Mk2. The Mk1 used a 200 grain lead bullet. The Mk2 came later, and used a 178 grain FMJ bullet. This was to meet the requirements of the Hague Conventions which prohibited expanding bullets in warfare. You will find .380 Revolver ammunition made about everywhere in the British Empire. Those made in Great Britain, India, and South Africa are probably the most common. .38 S&W, .380 Mk1, and .380 Mk2 cartridges are interchangeable, but not strictly identical.
DWalt, my apologies for misreading your response to my inquiries. The V Model I wrote about has NOT been bored for the .38 S&W Special cartridges, so is in original condition. I also checked the link that you sent to dalexan62 and discovered the meaning of the "p" that is on the barrel, cylinder and left sideplate of the revolver. That's a great site. I am still wondering about the E stamped on the bottom of the right grip. have you encountered that on any of the other database examples?
Just joined to share some pictures and hopefully get some more info about my revolver. Seems like a very nice crowd here.
Anywho, my revolver has the serial number V617875.
Here's some details:
-Does not have original stocks, rather is wearing a set of 1950's faux stag grips.
-Has it's lanyard loop intact
-Barrel, cylinder, and frame all have matching serial numbers and are all stamped with a "V" and a "P"
-Barrel is stamped ".38 s.&w. special ctg"
-gun is chambered in .38 special.
-chambers and barrel have been safety checked by a gunsmith and look to be in near perfect condition. Safe to fire/use and all that.
-hammer and trigger have a case hardened finish.
-Left topstrap markings have been removed. My friend said that he got it like that and wasn't aware of what it might have said.
As for known history, i bought it from a Sheriff buddy who had it for a long time, 20+ years. He got it from a relative apparently, who was also a cop. As far as i know it was purchased in the 50's, but i'm not sure if it was a duty gun or just a personal weapon.
Thanks in advance for any additional info. Cheers!
Ok,
I am a newbie so I hope this is not all old news. I recently acquired S&W V184774 4"bbl walnot grips, no US mrkgs found, serial matches to bbl, butt, and cylinder. It has a F8 over 28033 in the frame behind the cylinder shaft(visable when cylinder is swung out only). No sign of flaming bomb or any other inspector stamps just the typical bbl mrkgs.
1. What is the procedure for obtaining the factory letter? address, fee, info needed upon application, is there a pre-printed application?
2. Y/N - bbls mrkd 38 S&W Special ctg are for US forces not lend-lease and use standard load 38spec ammo.
3. What would be the approx ship date?
4. where on this site do you find the oft referred to database?
Thanks
Col. H
Anywho, my revolver has the serial number V617875.....Thanks in advance for any additional info. Cheers!
Hello RevolverDad:
Welcome to the Forum:
From the Victory Model Database, which my pal LWCmdr45 and I administer, I can tell you that your Victory likely shipped from the factory in the June, 1944 time frame. The removal of the left top strap markings dramatically affects the value of the revolver in a negative way. It is pretty much a shooter now. The removed markings were likely [Ord. Bomb] U.S. Property GHD.
From your serial number the Victory Model Database indicates that your revolver likely shipped from the factory in the November-December, 1942 time frame.
I hope that information is helpful to you. If you do seek a factory letter I hope that when it arrives that you will post the results back here so we can all be informed.
The VM Database is not presently available online. However, my collaborator LWCmdr45 are happy to answer any questions you might have, as would many other members here.