Yours probably shipped in October 1943. Without property stampings it is probably a DSC contract, intended for stateside use by law enforcement, defense plant guards, etc. It originally would have had a phosphate finish and smooth wood round-top stocks. It's probably not worthy of a letter.

Hi, I found a Victory Model at the Cabella's Gun Library the other day for $349.99. It is missing the original grips and lanyard loop. There are no markings on the top strap, serial numbers match, serial number V136052. When was this revolver made? Pics to follow. Eta pics

It probably left the factory in November 1942. Replacement smooth grips and lanyard loops are easily found. If the finish is good (you didn't give the caliber, but probably .38 Special if unmarked) and it is otherwise unmolested, that price is not bad.

Sorry, 4 inch barrel marked S&W 38 Special CTG.

Thanks

While not 100% certain, if yours has no property markings on the top strap, it was probably made for stateside service by law enforcement and defense plant guards. There were reportedly a little over 70,000 of those revolvers made under Defense Supply Corporation (DSC) contracts. But a few unmarked ones were destined for other users, such as OSS.

Found what I think was a good find at an estate sale.

Victory model SN V 457145. 4 inch Barrel, ALL numbers match, inside the Right grip(smooth walnut), on Butt, Cyl, bottom of Barrel, and on extractor.

Marked U.S Property G.H.D. on top.
On back strap WB - S - ESS No. 3 ( haven't seen anything about markings such as these on back strap, any ideas?)

Cal marked as 38 Smith & Wesson Special CTG

__________________
Sonny Rock

Thanks - Yes, it does appear to be re-blued -- Since I posted, I went back and read every post and learned a lot about Victories, minus the hour or so I left to go to Mass it took close to five hours to read them all. Hopefully someone will have a clue what the WB - S - ESS No. 3 translates to... every thing about the revolver is tight, with a very clean bore - I love it... thanks again...

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Sonny Rock

Two letters back from Roy on recent pre-victory purchases.

#1. Serial 953397, shipped to the Oldsmobile Division of GM in March 1942. Traditional pre-victory 38 Special: original blue finish, numbered correct pre-war flush medallion grips, 4" barrel.

#1 Serial 848823 to the British Purchasing Commission, October 1941. Again a traditional pre-victory 38/200 Smith. It has its original blue finish, came with grips from the 1920's, and 5" barrel. I've located some correct grips that are being restored at this point.

I'll post photos of both together when the grips for the 38/200 return from Wisconsin.

The backstrap stamping translates to:

American Occupation Zone
WB - district of Wurttemberg-Baden
S -city police
City - Esslingen
Rack (inventory) no. - 3

Hope this is helpful.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

Thanks Alan, I should have been able to figure out that the WB was for district/state of Wurttemberg-Baden since I was stationed in Wurttemberg-Baden (or Baden-Württemberg as most of the area the area is know now) for more then two years and ESS was Esslingen; I have been through Esslingen dozens of times, I was stationed 35 miles from there in Schwäbisch Gmünd. That information makes my find not a good find but a great find........

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Sonny Rock

You're very welcome. There were a mixture of .38/200 (.38 S & W) and .38 Special revolvers given to the German police at that time. Enjoy!

__________________
Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

Figured I would post this nice Navy Victory I have.Would like to restore to original without breaking the bank. All matching numbers except for the missing grips. Think original wartime grips would be better or repros, either way they wont be original to it ?
US NAVY 13265x

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Hello,
I'm new to the site and would like information on the Victory model I just picked up. S/N V133138 4'' barrel and marked U.S. Navy on the top strap. It is in .38 special and all the numbers match except there is no number on the bottom of the barrel? the revolver has war time park type finish. Thanks for any information.

I've seen V530837. Hannibal Lecter turned it into a .22. No military markings visible.
Just for the database.

Here is one for the database serial number 917188 no V and no British proofs Just the US Property on top and small importer marks under barrel all serial numbers match whats left of the finish appears bright blue. I do have two questions. What is the most logical reason for absence of British proofs and what would be approximate ship date.

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Hello Merl:

Your pre-Victory likely shipped from the factory in the February, 1942 time frame.

The left top strap markings probably say "UNITED STATES PROPERTY", not U.S. Property. It is indeed a Lend Lease gun.

You did not mention anything about the markings on the butt. They should be WB/P with a small ordnance bomb.

You mentioned the presence of a small importer's marking on the barrel underside. Does it say "NA Co. Ridgefield, NJ"? If you can confirm that then I can tell you where your Victory served in the British Commonwealth. It may also explain the absence of UK post-war commercial proofs.

Are there any markings above the back strap? All of these clues combine to tell the story of your revolver. Without them we are just whistling Dixie, so to speak.

__________________
Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

Charlie thanks you're correct about the property stamp and the others as well as the importer NA Co. Ridgefield, NJ and the marks on the backstrap that I missed are NZ 3728 so New Zealand it is any more info you can give is much appreciated.

Both Vega (Sacramento CA) and Navy Arms (NA, Ridgefield NJ) imported many of these .38/200 revolvers from Australia and New Zealand in the early 1990's. The Australian revolvers often have some distinctive markings showing rebuilding. Please provide any such markings you can see to verify. February 1942 is a very likely shipping date.

The majority of .38/200 revolvers did not receive any British proof markings until after they were released for commercial sale as surplus by the British military after WWII. British law required proofing, which was done at both Birmingham and London proof houses. Of course, many .38/200s which found their way into the USA as "duffle bag specials" by returning soldiers (and by other means not necessarily completely legal) will have no proof markings.

I have just purchased what I believe to be an early Victory. Hopefully I will be able to run 38sp, but any information or insight you could provide would be great.

SN# V 320444 on the butt
England on the cylinder
ENP 320444 38" 767" on the bottom of the barrel
Pinned barrel 2 3/8 inches long
Made in the USA stamp

Frame and Crane still match 66598

It is also nickel plated, with plastic grips. I have already ordered wooden replacements.


Thanks,

Hi all,
This is my first time on the forum. I live in the UK and own a .38 S&W Victory Revolver, it is de-activated or de-milled. I would like to know as much about the revolver as possible.
The Serial No is V 398089 and has a 5 inch barrel.
Next to the serial number "CP" is stamped?
Thanks for any help.
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Egan99
Just curious how are these demilled or de-activated ?

Hi Merl67,
The one I own has a "ring" welded inside the cylinder to prevent cartridges being loaded, the barrel is pinned and what I believe is called the hammer nose is missing.
The laws changed several years ago regarding ownership of hand guns here in the UK.
Hope the pictures help.

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the horror, the horror........ that is as bad as being neutered...

__________________
Sonny Rock

I know, thanks to our gun control laws that have'nt reduced gun crime.

Egan99
That is sad very sad if you ever come to the USA maybe you could contact some of us and we could take you shooting with one.

You have what's known as a "Chopped and Bored Victory" which shipped about mid-1943. Literally boatloads of these butchered Victories exist. Little about it is original, and it is not worth much. The chambers have probably been lengthened to accept .38 Special cartridges. It could be a shooter, but will never be collectible.

I guess my next question would be is it safe to shoot .38 special through it. The cylinder does look like it has been reamed out, the rest of the gun seems to be in good mechanical shape. I had hoped to use it as a woods carry gun mainly for snakes and the like, so there would be no +p or high power rounds only normal lead target loads.

Thanks for all the info not really what I wanted to hear but good to know.

It's probably fine for your purpose. As the rear of the chambers are sloppy (.38 S&W has a slightly larger base diameter than .38 Special), fired cases will usually show a bulge toward the rim. Some have reported case sticking and occasional case ruptures (not really hazardous), but I have not experienced either of those afflictions. It just depends on the individual revolver. Various importers made such modifications back in the 1950s-60s. The purpose was to make them more attractive to U. S. purchasers. They sold in the $25-$35 price range back then. Lee Harvey Oswald allegedly had one, which he used to murder Dallas cop J. D. Tippitt, so you do have sort of a historical story to go with it. Current gun show prices will be around $200, maybe a little more.

I took the Victory snubbie to the club with me this morning rock hunting with the wife. I took a few minutes and shot several cylinders thru it "168 gr 38sp wadcutters" and as we thought it expanded out the cases towards the rim. Not terribly but definitely enough to notice. I think it will be ok with normal 38 Spl, but I am also going to find some 38 S&W. It does shoot pretty good though, I was tearing up the small 2.5-3 inch sweet gum trunk I was aiming at from about 10 feet. It was shooting a little high maybe an inch but I can adjust for that as long as I am good left to right. She won't be used for distance anyway.

Thanks for all the info.

I have a pistola in transit that may be a Victory. All I see on the outside from the pics are .38 S&W on the right brl, Smith & Wesson on the left, Made in USA right side frame & S&W trademark. There's some type of concocted raised rib barrel that might have been an aftermarket add-on or an individual's customizing. As such any roll marks on top are hidden.

It does have the military P proof behind the top right frame window on the left side of the frame. Did Victorys come w/smooth or serrated trigger?[via PM I learned that the serrated trigger came on the Victory] As well when making inquires unto the SN I didn't ask if any letter(s) proceeded the numbers. I await delivery for inspection.[Naturally it was booked as V670313]

Here's the link if you care to take a peek. I'll post more when it comes in later in the week.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-han...-<br /> w.html

Read through the thread taking notes.

"The P-proof markings on the upper left frame don't begin to show up on Navy-shipped Victory Models until about January, 1944."

Speculation that mine might be a Pre-Victory isn't looking well.[No way & in using the above quote did not intend to imply that this was a Navy Victory]


Here's the gist of the modded Victory.

Left side of barrel has SMITH & WESSON whilst the right side uses smaller type and a bit of a different ampersand 38 S. & W. CTG and both ends of this barrel roll mark contains three marks. Two horizontal flanked by a vertical that looks sort of like a T sideways.[seems consistent w/other 38 S&W roll marks, no 38/200] Cannot see the top due to the add-on barrel rib. Barrel pin ends are ground flat w/frame & I cannot see it w/o a loupe. B/C gap .008.

Extractor star/cylinder has one dowel pin. No space for another. [Pg 139 SCSW 38 M&P 1905 2nd change, "Two dowel pins are generally found in the star extractor." 1906-1909]

Was this normal during Victory production to use just one dowel pin?
If not might this have been NOS inventory pressed into service?
Was it limited to the .38 S&W?

SN V670313 P on the barrel flat & cylinder face. 670313 behind the star. Frame cut-out 32033 and that has a U above the numbers. Yoke & inside of sideplate has 32033. Under the stocks on the left side is U, V, 1, & a little c inside of a recessed circle that looks a lot like a copyright stamp. Right side has an upside down 4 and a 6 and the lanyard hole in the bottom of the gripframe apparently has been plugged.

ETA: along w/some explanation above in brackets [ ] I can photograph any point of interest in macro using 3X [non-digital] zoom coupled w/stacked 4+, 2+, 1+ 55mm macro lenses. Should there be an interest in anything particular. I believe that is still only 7X, but I can back up a bit due to the zoom allowing more light and a greater viewing/image area. I'm not much of a shutterbug mentally though I enjoy the detail

Why are the ends pointed as opposed to being square? Third pic is what I originally thought looked as a C or copyright stamp.

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Pre-Victory Canadian model, 6" barrel, serial number 735342

A Victory caught my eye at the gun shop today because it had a $1500 price tag on it. It had been stamped 38 special and had this marking A followed by an up arrow and then the letter F. It was a 5 digit sn#. No V. Marked US Property with G.H.D. on it. That's all I can remember about it.

$1500? That's a new high for me, by far. That's way beyond any sane bargaining range. A 5 digit SN with no V-prefix cannot be a Victory or a pre-Victory. They started about SN 685000 for the first British order in 1940, and they weren't in .38 Special. Anyway, best to avoid even thinking about buying that one.

Hello all... I recently got a Victory from my Grandfathers attic. Don't know much about it. 38 S&W possibly modified to 38Spl. Not sure. How can I tell? Also double action does not work. Can anyone start to educate me on this gun and it's issue? Thanks in advance.

I have a Victory that I have posted elsewhere on the sight. Please add it to the data base if someone has not added it already.

The serial number is V294481. The cylinder does not match. It is not, unfortunately, chamber in 38 S&W. I don't know what caliber but would like to find out and acquire at least one box of ammo.

I can't find the photos of the right side with the close ups of the various markings. I may reshoot and add later

At least the frame would date from about May 1943. It appears to have a 5" barrel, and if so, it would have originally been a British .38/200 chambered in .38 S&W. Measure the barrel length to be sure (front face of cylinder to muzzle). ".38 S&W CTG" should be stamped on the barrel if it is a .38/200. See if a .38 Special cartridge can be completely chambered. If not, the chambers have not been bored. A replacement cylinder evidenced by a different SN on the rear face would indicate it is a parts gun, but we don't know if it is chambered in .38 S&W or .38 Special. I would not be surprised to find that it had been re-Parkerized also.

It's a cut barrel .38/200, ca. May 1943. Stocks are either non original, or original stocks which have later been checkered. The front sight is a later addition. Original front sights were nothing like that. Definitely has been refinished. The other question unanswered is has the cylinder been modified to accept .38 Special ammunition? Regardless, it is not original and non-collectible. It might bring $250-$300 on the high side in a private sale.

Dwalt: Thanks for the info..tried a 38 spl and yes it's been modified. Any thoughts on the issue with dbl action? Looking at it, seems like hammer goes too far forward and sear can't grab properly. Any good gunsmiths have a suggestion?? I realize this gun is no prize but because it was my grandfathers it has some personal value and would like to get it functioning properly. Thanks again!!!!

I can't tell you exactly what the problem is. However, it's not too difficult to pop off the sideplate and take a close look at the mechanism. Disassembly is not difficult, but the simple fabrication of one tool helps greatly. There are disassembly videos on YouTube you can follow, and various internet sites which will provide the parts drawings and the steps involved. The internet is your friend. Only two rules to keep in mind - Use a proper screwdriver to fit the sideplate screw slots tightly, and, NEVER attempt to pry off the sideplate. Tapping on the opposite side of the frame with a hammer handle or plastic hammer is all that's required. The interior could simply be gunked up with dried oil, and with the sideplate removed, blasting everything well with a spray can of carb cleaner or brake cleaner will usually clean everything well. That may also be the problem. Don't be afraid to try to figure out the problem and fix it yourself - it's just not that mechanically challenging. Parts are usually available, but you probably won't need anything.

Hello I just picked up a Smith & Wesson K frame with the serial number v6640 nickel 2 inch all members match with and AO marking under the cylinder on the frame above the serial number where the crane closes any ideas ?

It's almost certainly a chopped and bored WWII .38/200 Victory BSR from mid-1942. These were heavily modified when imported into the US from England in the 1950s and 1960s. Their value is minimal, and they have no collector interest. There has been a huge number of postings about these here, as they are extremely common.

Here is one for the database serial number V644085
has U.S.PROPERTY G.H.D. 38 spl all matching numbers came with holster marked Boyt 44

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Friend of mine's grandfather had this. Providence is unknown. It is a 2" barrel in nickel.

I know there were a few (very few) manufactured with the 2" barrel but unaware of any finished in nickel other than the post war "SV" serial models.

Debating on getting it lettered but wanted to see what others had to say.

I'll get more pictures and will have a chance to look at in person on Sunday. Not sure if someone shortened the barrel on this one or if it is an original 2" barrel model that someone refinished.



Serial number placement was unexpected. I'm used to seeing them on the grip but all numbers match. Serial number is V581528.

Marine24
Barrel has been shortened. The front lug was cut off when this was done. serial number should be on the butt of the grip frame. Original finish would most likely been Black magic or parkerised. Grips would have been smooth walnut. May have been originally 38 S&W but rechambered to 38 Special. The letters on these don't generally tell you much about them.

Merl,

Thanks. Expected as much. Friend was seeing plum fairies thinking this was an original 2" DOJ issue but things weren't adding up.

Mike

Definitely not worth bothering with a letter - a typical chopped, bored, and plated .38/200 Victory. What it's worth is whatever someone is willing to pay for a shooter. That one was probably shipped in May 1944.

I found the below pre-victory to add my safe. I figure about Dec of 1941 or Jan of 1942 shipping. I'll request a letter to see where it went and post results when I get it back. Grips are numbered & match. Serial is 898176 and the blue looks to be original - yes, 38 Special.

[img][/img]

Your dating is about right. I assume it is .38 Special, and if so it was probably civilian, not military. A very nice specimen.

Looking at al the pictures of the victory models. Makes me think I rated the one I have to low. I had it rated at 50%. I believe it should be more around 75 to 80%. This being said. It is all matching numbers,minus the grips. Doesn't have the original grips,but it does have the diamond walnut grips. Has a P stamp on the btm. Of the barrel, and side cover. Nothing stamped on the top,other than the patient dates. The gun belongs to a friend,and I am trying to help him figure out what it is worth. Any help would be appreciated. I have pictures on my one, but can't download to the site. I can't send you a coupe of pictures, if you will send me you email address,or cell number.