Hi,

I am new to S&W, but have an opportunity to buy a few Victory models. The one above is closest and likely the best price point for me based on condition and other factors (not marked “Navy”, and no proven provenance). Can you tell me anything based on the serial number?

Thank you in advance for your time, attention, and keeping the database active - so very much appreciated.

Thanks,

Cyril

Hello Cyril:

Welcome to the forum.

All I can tell you based upon the single data point of the serial number is that it likely shipped in late 1943 or early 1944.

Please help us to help you. To be able to further diagnose the Victory in question we need to know: the caliber; the barrel length; any left top strap markings; any markings on the butt other than the serial number; the finish type; the stock type; and any post-factory markings or modifications. Pictures certainly help. With that additional information we can probably tell you more about the revolver in question.

Regards,
Charlie

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Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

Does anyone have any info on DSC pistols in this range? Thanks!

Hi, I recently came into possession of a nice Victory. Serial number is V278115. If you have an idea of a ship date, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks!

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Randy
SWCA #2468 SWHF #346

Thank you for both the welcome and the information. I would attach a photo, but I don’t know if that is possible. It is chambered in .38 Special and is a 4” barrel. All of the numbers match and it has smooth walnut original wood grips. There is no “US Navy” on the top strap. I hope that is helpful. Thanks again.

Hi again folks. New to me pre-Victory S&W M&P, 6” barrel, Canadian C-arrow proofed, SN 735384 in original blue. Matching barrel and cylinder. Silver medallion checkered grips. Other markings include 38/380, Crown BNP on all cylinders and frame, and overload pressure on the barrel. This makes it a ‘41 Canadian contract surplussed later from England? What size holster fits the 6” barrel? Any additional info deeply appreciated. Thanks!

No comments from anyone? Tried to post pics… didn’t work.

Video Tutorials on Posting Pictures

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Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629

Hello again, Cyril:

Thank for the additional information. With no left top strap markings and no additional marks on the butt, I am unable to provide you with further information. It is likely that your revolver V442310 was not military issue, which means that it was probably DSC issue or perhaps U.S. Maritime Commission issue. A SWHF letter would be the only certain way to determine a shipping destination given the absence of definitive markings.

Regards,
Charlie

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Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

Yes, correct. Your revolver likely shipped to Canada in February, 1941.

As for the holsters used by the Canadians the standard P-37 pattern was first used for the 6" guns. This created a poor fit resulting in occasional placement of a strap that would allow the flap to be closed. Again, this halfway measure was unsatisfactory.

Finally, a larger web holster generally similar to the P-37 pattern but with a curved flap was adopted. It would carry the 6" guns as well as the large frame .455 guns that were still in occasional use by some Canadian soldiers. A photo of the latter holster made in 1943 in Canada is shown below, along with the accompanying ammunition case.



I hope this answers your questions.

Regards,
Charlie

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Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

Hello Randy:

Your Victory likely shipped from the factory in the May-June, 1943 time frame.

Can you tell us more about it? I would like to add that information to the Database. We like to have caliber, barrel length, finish, type of stocks, left top strap markings, any butt markings other than the serial, and any post-factory markings or modifications.

Hope that helps you.

Regards,
Charlie

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Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

Thank you Charlie!

Hi everyone,

I'm new (WW2 collector from switzerland) to this forum and have a S&W victory to submit ! I search any information about an approximative date of fabrication ?

US PROPERTY G.H.D


S marking on the pistol grip



Serial Number : V602004
Barrel: 5 inches

Caliber: .38 S&W


Two sorts of british markings


Look at attached pictures for better view

Does somebody have any information about the black finish and the strange markings ?


2.jpg[/IMG]
Look at attached pictures for better view

Thanks in advance and best regards !
Sorry in advance for any grammar and vocabulary mistake in my post, english isn't my first language !
Militariaman

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	G.H.D markings.jpg (94.1 KB, 11 views)

Hello. Perhaps someone could provide me with some info on my victory. Serial # V 399579. 5” barrel. All in original condition with matching numbers throughout. Grips are walnut. There are no property marks on the revolver. It’s not blued it’s more a galvanized color of steel. Any info is much appreciated. Thank you in advance.

Hello Militariaman:

Welcome to the Forum. Your English and grammar are excellent as are your photos which are a big help in interpreting your revolver. From those I can tell you the following.

S&W did not typically record the date of manufacture of its firearms. Instead, it kept records of shipping dates from the factory. Your revolver likely shipped from the factory in the June-July, 1944 time frame. It was a Lend Lease gun.

The markings on the side plate of FTR and 53 indicate that your revolver underwent a post-war Factory Thorough Repair by the British military in 1953.

The odd black, paint-like finish you noted is known as "Suncorite" (sometimes spelled "Sunkorite"). It was a durable finish that was specified by the British military for use on many rebuilt firearms and accessories. It had some adverse environmental aspects so its use was eventually discontinued. The Suncorite finish on your revolver was almost certainly applied when it went through the FTR process in 1953.

The precise meaning of the S mark on the toe of the front grip strap is unknown to me. I can say that it is not a marking that is frequently observed on the Victory revolvers. S marks in other locations do have well known significance but I do not think that they are applicable to this mark in this particular location.

On the left frame aft of the cylinder latch the markings are rather hard to read but in that location appear to me to be a version of Broad Arrow /|\ over a Crown over a sideways E. This indicates that the revolver was British military property which had been inspected at the British arsenal at Enfield. That mark on your revolver is somewhat unusual for two reasons.

First, as a Lend Lease gun this revolver remained the property of the United States government and was only "lent" to the British. Thus, the presence of the Broad Arrow markings is contrary to terms under which the revolver was supplied to the British. This is a fine legal point that was undoubtedly ignored in the exigencies of a world war.

Second, this marking is not usually observed on revolvers that were shipped as late in the War as this one in mid-1944. Indeed, the use of this marking is most frequently observed on the revolvers that were direct purchases by the British in 1940-1941, not Lend Lease guns. The direct purchase guns were owned outright by the British and so it was right and proper that they be so marked.

You have a very interesting Victory. I hope that this information helps you to better understand its history.

Regards,
Charlie

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Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

Hello Lolo:

Your Victory likely shipped from the factory in the August, 1944 time frame. With a 5 inch barrel it almost certainly is a .38 S&W (.38-200) chambered gun. It most likely was a Lend Lease item. It's original finish was Black Magic. I'd have to see a photo or two in order to determine if your revolver maintains its original finish.

Hope that helps you.

Regards,
Charlie

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Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

Hi Charlie,
Sorry it took me a bit to get back to you on this revolver. It is a 4 inch in 38 special. The serial number on the grip frame has a small ordinance flaming ball stamp before the V and a small stake-like punch mark after the serial number. The top left top strap has a small ordinance flaming ball stamp preceding"U.S. PROPERTY'G.H.D.
The finish appears to be the factory "black magic" finish. The grips are the appropriate smooth walnut and the swivel is present. The revolver doesn't appear to be fired much at all as the recoil shield is unmarked. The only downside is someone filed the back of the front sight to form a ramp instead of the traditional half moon shape.

I hope all this helps, thanks for the approximate dating! Happy New Years!

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Randy
SWCA #2468 SWHF #346

I have a victory model I’d love to find some information about and it can be added to the database you have.

Serial # V340027 on the bottom of the grip, and oddly the first 4 V3(4)0027 is stamped over another number; however it matches the serial number V340027 on the cylinder and under the barrel. It is marked 38 S&W however it has been bored to shoot 38SPL at some point in time. There are crown marks on every cartridge entrance to each cylinder, appears to be a crown with an upside down T. The right side of the barrel has a flaming mortar looking symbol with the letters NP (I think).

Above the 38S&W inscription is the inscription .38 1-15 followed by a symbol I can’t read, then the number 4 and the letters TOM (the M is very faint and could be a N).

One line Made in U.S.A with a crown and T symbol underneath. There is a small P near the V on the bottom of the grip. And underneath the non-serialized stocks (maybe a beautiful walnut) on the right side is the letter A and on the left side a number 13 about middle ways up with another crown symbol towards the bottom left. The crane number on yoke and cylinder is 933 91 and there is an inscription S5 above the yoke number.

It has a 3.5” barrel, and blued and belonged to my great uncle who was a service member in the army but shortly after WW2. Any information you have would be awesome! Please see attached pictures.

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Thanks Charlie for the big amount of information about my S&W Victory !

The marks on the left frame aft of the cylinder latch that you thinks are maybe a broad arrow don't seem to be one look at the close up pics (pictures one and two) !
It more seems to be à crown on two letter (second one is propably an R). Below seems to be some crossing line and at the bottom a P.

1.jpg

2.jpg

Third image is a "similar" markings on a britsh Webley Mark I own!
3.jpg


Any idea of the meaning ?

Best Regards and an Happy new year !

Hello Militariaman:

Thanks for the additional pictures. They require me to modify my earlier supposition about the markings which were to me rather indistinct. The Webley photo of the same marks clears it up.

The Crown over G.R. over Crossed Pennants over a P is a type of British proof mark. The Crown over G.R. refers to Georgius Rex, or King George VI. He was King of England from 1936 until his death in 1952. The crossed items are pennants, a military proof mark as is the P. Similar marks are found on a variety of British small arms from that era including the Enfield .303 rifles. It is not a marking that is commonly found on the Victory.

I hope that additional information is helpful to you.

Regards,
Charlie

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Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

Hello Chief:

Your revolver was already in the Database. It appears that it likely shipped from the factory in the June-July, 1943 time frame. It was a Lend Lease gun.

Your revolver was modified post-war by re-chambering it from .38 S&W to .38 Special, refinishing it to blue, cutting the 5" barrel to 3.5", adding a new front sight, and replacing the stocks.

The non-factory markings you referred to are post-war British commercial proof marks applied after it left military service.

I hope that information is helpful to you.

Regards,
Charlie

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Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

Thank you! I had a friend do some research last year so he must have had it added. Can you tell me what the mortar symbol with the NP lettering stands for? Just trying to learn something!

V1917

I recently acquired the above numbered Victory model in 38spl. Unfortunately, it has been refinished in a satin like finish. Reminds me of the model 28 finish. It came with diamond magna stocks. Underneath the stocks there is a letter S on the frame. I thought it might be an indication of the addition of the hammer block safety, but when I opened it up that was not the case. What doe the "S" indicate?

I also was interested in arsenal rework and refinishing. What finish would be put over an early Victory Black Magic finish. Is there a way of finding out more of the history of this gun past the ship date that a letter would provide. Will add photos soon.

Attached Images

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	1.jpg (110.1 KB, 20 views)

Hello gmarshall99:

In some circumstances the S mark in certain locations can indicate that a gun has been worked on by the S&W Service Department. Given the limited photos provided I will venture that this is not the case here. The S mark on your revolver is most likely a fitter's, assembler's or inspector's mark. It is of little consequence.

I have never seen any evidence that any government arsenal "reworked" or refinished to blue 4 inch .38 Special Victory Model revolvers. The government did enter into a contract with S&W during late WW2 to rebuild Victory revolvers but those guns were refinished to Black Magic and have other markings that reveal a rebuild under that contract.

My opinion is that your revolver was refinished while in civilian hands and not by S&W or by any government arsenal.

As to any history beyond what might be provided in a SWHF letter the only source I can suggest would be the Springfield Research Service. I would caution you that finding a serial number listed by SRS is a very long shot and you have to subscribe to their service to be able to access that. See the link: Services |

I hope that information is helpful to you.

Regards,
Charlie

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Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

Thank You Charlie for your reply.
Gary

Submitting my one Victory for the data base, V716002 in 38 SPCL. I learned from the letter how the markings for US Navy Victory’s varied during the war production. Manufactured in the latter part of 1944, this revolver’s top strap is marked “(bomb) U. S. Property GHD”; and was ultimately shipped to the US Navy. The pistol belt and Brauer Bros. holster shown came with it when I purchased it.

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	IMG_0388.jpeg (164.5 KB, 21 views)

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Tim

Timothy:

That is a fine looking Navy Victory and rig.

Thanks very much for providing your factory letter. The data has now been incorporated into the Database.

Regards,
Charlie

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Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

Hi there. Seeking info and opinion on:
1. Manufacture date

2. Since the cylinder has the Crown BNG ENGLAND proof mark, does it mean this is a land lease model? Or a post-war mix parts firearm. (The cylinder has "v" and "400003" markings on the side of the surface where the ammo cartridge is inserted).

3. If the cylinder is a land lease for Breat Britian, shouldn't it be 38 S&W instead of 38 Special ?

4. Adding the commercial blue, barrel says 38 Special (i.e. not 38 S&W), and it has a British crown cylinder, what is this boy ? ; )

5. The barrel's blue is in better condition than the frame. Does it look to be a "home changed" barrel ?

Thank you for the time.

Attached Images

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	USPropertyGND.jpg (59.7 KB, 210 views)
	BarrelR.jpg (77.6 KB, 207 views)

The cylinder and barrel have been replaced. The barrel is post-war. It's odd that they used a BSR cylinder since it was probably .38 S&W and would have to be reamed out to fire .38 Special.

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Kevin Williams SWCA1649 HF208

Hi everyone,

I have a second S&W victory to submit ! I search any information about an approximative date of fabrication ?

left side 2.jpg

US PROPERTY
US property.jpg

Serial Number : 981007
Serial number.jpg

W.B. Markings
W.B. Markings.jpg

Barrel: 5 inches
Caliber: .38 S&W
caliber markings.jpg

NO british markings

Look at attached pictures for better view

Thanks in advance and best regards !

Militariaman

Hello Militariaman:

Your 981007 likely shipped from the S&W factory in April or May, 1942. It was a Lend Lease program gun.

You seem to be finding some nice revolvers over there in Switzerland. Good shooting and happy collecting to you.

Regards,
Charlie

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Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

Hi Charles, do you have additional opinion/info on this piece in additional to Kevin William's comment? Like the frame's manufacture date?

Thanks for the infotmation !

What are the current price for an exemplar like this one in the US ?

Best regards

Militariaman

Registered with the site just to post mine. US Property GHD marked, 4 inch barrel .38 Special, serial #V337587. Barrel matches frame, but the grips, although proper walnut, are not marked inside making me think they are replacements. Will probably order a letter for this and a Smith & Wesson Model 19-3 I have.

https://i.imgur.com/g0ZSOYA.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/EVBiHof.jpeg

(couldnt get the pics to link right, but they should be viewable).

Let me help you out.

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Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629

Would like to get info on V7382X. 4" barrel .38 special. Thanks!

Hello Not:

Thanks for your post. I can tell you that your revolver likely shipped from the factory in the June-July, 1943 time frame, based upon the Victory Model Database.

Hope that helps you.

Regards,
Charlie

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Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

Hello Randy:

I'd like to help you but I can't work with incomplete serial numbers. If you can supply me with the complete serial, finish type, stock type, as well as any left top strap markings and any post-factory markings I can then dig into the Database for you.

Regards,
Charlie

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Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

I just acquired #V704810 (stamped with Flaming Bomb and "US Property GHD on top strap) complete with USN Boyt '43 holster. The revolver was reportedly carried by Aviation Ordanceman William Harold Arnold who served from July '42 through January '46. His complete service record was included in the purchase. He was assigned to the following:

Carrier Aircraft Service Unit 67
Carrier Aircraft Service Unit 7
Bombing Squadron 99
Carrier Aircraft Service Unit 5
Torpedo Squadron 20 & Fighter Squadron 20
Carrier Aircraft Service Unit 23
Hedron Squadron 5

Carriers USS Enterprise and USS Lexington

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I'm still a bit unsure on why a "Aviation Ordnancemen" would have been issued a sidearm, but from what I've researched tonight, it appears that some also served as "gunners" aboard larger multi-seat fighter bombers/torpedo planes. Of course, I'll never know for sure how he might have ended up with this revolver in his possession.

Hello Snakeman:

A neat gun in excellent condition. It looks like Mr. Arnold attended the Naval Aviation Free Gunnery School at Whidbey Island, so he knew his way around aviation machine guns. His last rank recorded on his service record was AOM1/c (T) which, I think, translates to "AVIATION ORDNANCEMAN 1ST CLASS PETTY OFFICER, Aviation Turret Mechanic".

From the Victory Model Database I can tell you that your Victory likely shipped from the factory in the October, 1944 time frame. It would have taken some amount of time to travel to one of the Naval Supply Depots where it would have been transferred to an aviation unit for issuance to those aviators (including enlisted aircrew) authorized to have a side arm issued to them. My guess would be that Arnold would not likely have gotten his hands on this revolver before January, 1945.

Hope that information is helpful to you.

Regards,
Charlie

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Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

Hello.. How about Victory #V159236, 4 inch, .38 special with ordnance bomb on butt.

Hello Melvin:

Regarding your V159236 the ship dates in that range are a little bit scattered. As you may know S&W did not ship in strict consecutive serial number order. My best estimate, based on the Victory Database, is that your revolver likely shipped in November, 1942.

HTH.

Regards,
Charlie

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Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

Hi all,

I picked up this Victory yesterday, number V114714. Looking through this fantastic thread, I'm guessing it dates to around mid-August 1942. I also would like to contribute to the database.

It's .38 S&W (.380/200), 5 inch barrel, with 'WB' and ordnance proofs. It has also been issued to the New Zealand forces.

If anyone has any further info or can confirm my guesswork for the date, that would be much appreciated.

Many thanks,

Simon

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Hello Simon:

Welcome to the Forum. Thanks for posting the data on your nice New Zealand example.

From the Database it appears likely that your Victory shipped in the September-October, 1942 time frame.

Regards,
Charlie

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Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

Hi Charlie,

Many thanks for the welcome!
Thanks for looking at the database to clarify the date for me, I wasn’t too far off with my guess!

Best regards,

Simon

Picked up a new zealand used victory, serial number 921331. It's still in 38. s&w with a 5 inch barrel but someone replaced its grips. I was hoping to find out what year it was made and what type of grips it originally shipped with.


Thanks,
Jason

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	IMG_6159.jpg (33.1 KB, 6 views)

Welcome to the forums from the cotton and peanut covered plains of the Wiregrass! It is a Lend-Lease gun so it would have shipped in late 1941 or early 1942. The grips should be plain Victory service grips.

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Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629