Thanks Charlie!

Hi All, have what I think is a victory based on SN at auction. Any additional info would be great. Barrel length and sights confuse me because I didnt think the victory models were available in this configuration. It also had newer K frame grips on it. Barrel looks like its smooth bore the last 2" or so. SN is V633455. No caliber is marked on barrel. Has this been rebarreled? Also, any idea where I can get some period correct grips?

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It has been rebarreled reblued, buffed, adjustable sights drilled and tapped in frame and lanyard hole plugged.

I wouldn't worry about putting original grips back on it. There is nothing original left on the gun except the bare frame.

I agree, it's only value will be in how well it shoots for you...Find grips that are comfortable for your hand, and try it out on the range......Ben

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Cogito, ergo BOOM!...

Hello,
I just purchased a Victory .38 S&W Special Ctg Pistol.
Any information I can get for it would be greatly appreciated.
Serial number V200929 and every part that has a serial number on it including the grips, matches the frame Serial.

Hello Will4me:

Your Victory is listed in the SWCA Database. According to our Database your revolver shipped in December, 1942 to the U.S. Navy at Oakland, CA as 1 of 1500 units in the shipment.

By the way, it further appears that your Victory was sent back to the factory and repaired in November, 1961 for the City of Moses Lake, Washington Police Department. Thus, your revolver may have had a second career after leaving the Navy. You might want to check the left side of the grip frame with the stocks off to see if there are any repair markings there.

I hope that information is helpful to you.

Regards,
Charlie Flick

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Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

Gorgeous gun...Congratulations...Anybody would be proud to own it, especially me.

Charlie,
Thank you for the response.
I lucked into this pistol at a local gunshow.
Thanks for all the info and I do love this pistol.
William

Here are some pictures of the markings under the grips.

William:

You are welcome.

The diamond symbol is usually considered to be an indicator of a factory repair. The 1161 translates to November, 1961 for the repair work date.

Regards,
Charlie

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Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

Good day:

Recently learned my brother-in-law who passed away last year had a Victory. Serial V345167. Using information from this very useful thread I think this example was likely manufactured in the July, 1943 to August, 1943 period. Does that seem correct?

Thank you.

Ned

Yes, Ned, your July or August, 1943 range is correct on the ship date for this Victory.

Regards,
Charlie

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Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

Thank you Charlie.

Also realized we are discussing ship dates - not date of manufacture. My error.

Ned

Here is one with no marking on the top strap, P on the barrel flat and above the cylinder latch, with ordnance (flaming bomb) mark mixed in with the serial number. Then there is the W stamped on the butt. Any available info would be appreciated, of course. This one has been very lightly used and I'm thinking DSC.

I'm pretty sure I have a butt swivel for it somewhere.

Edit to add P on the rear face of the cylinder.

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After reading C. Pate again some of the marking point towards Army Supply Program (ASP) but I am still a little confused as to the year.

I recently got this Victory Model in very good condition. All serial numbers and assembly numbers are where they're supposed to be and are matching.
My confusion stems from the Historical Letter that came with it. From my admittedly limited knowledge, I don't believe the shipping date and the finish can be correct.
What is the opinion of the experts?20240512_115106.jpg

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No expert here, but according to Pate, from March, 1942 till the end of the war, finish was, sandblast "Black Magic" (parkerized).

Not an expert, but the finish looks right to me...Proprietary oxide finish known as "Black Magic". There were a few parkerized in 1942, but I am not sure if zinc oxide or manganese oxide was used....The manganese oxide parkerized is charcoal black, whereas zinc is lighter gray.

I would imagine that the information on the letter would be correct as actual shipping invoices and dates are reviewed when research is done. What exactly makes you think something is wrong with the date?

From what I have read the serial number is far too high for 1942.

Charlie is the expert on these, but from what I have seen, the serial number doesn't always correspond with shipping date. Say a 5 inch .38/200 model is produced and the order is 2500 guns. Then simultaneous orders for 4 inch guns comes in in .38 Special for the US Maritime Commission....

Then some stamped and numbered frames are sent back for tolerance issues and then used in another batch, but they sat in a pile for 6 months waiting on tolerance repair or another like order or whatever other chaotic issues that S&W had at this time.

It's frankly amazing that S&W kept such good records during wartime and people like Roy Jinks and others saved those records.

I was researching a wartime British Webley and that company kept nothing...Zilch, nada.

Retired W4:

Your V492220 likely shipped from the factory in the December, 1943 to January, 1944 time. Your suggestion that it may be a DSC authorized shipment is probably accurate, although it is also possible that it was a Maritime Commission shipment. Many examples of both destinations are found in close proximity to your serial number.

Regards,
Charlie

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Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

Lancerdg:

Nice revolver you have there.

I agree that your letter is in error. This occasionally happens as none of us is perfect. The correct ship date should be July 15, 1943, not 1942. The finish was indeed Black Magic.

SWHF Assistant Historian Don Mundell would, I am sure, be happy to double check on this for you and correct the suspected error. Bring it to his attention and, if warranted, a new letter will be promptly issued with the correct shipping date. Don works very hard to get things right but every now and then something slips past. Even Babe Ruth did not bat 1000.

Regards,
Charlie Flick

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Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

Thanks, Charlie.
I'll contact Don Mundell for a corrected letter.

I was under the impression that Black Magic was a black oxide applied over a sandblasted surface that was used prior to the short-lived Parkerizing process used in 1942 which infringed on the Parker Rustproofing Company's patent. Thereafter, a different phosphate process was used called Military Midnight Black.
I got this information from a 10 year old post. Is this still correct?

Lancerdg:

No, it is not correct. Further research and analysis on the Victory Model, facilitated in large measure by the S&WHF's document digitization project, has revealed additional information that changes what was thought to be the case years ago.

In February, 1942 the Hartford Ordnance District approved a change in finish to the use of Black Magic after sandblasting with 120 grain media. That is what was used until the end of the War. Several terms have been used over the years to describe this finish ("military midnight black finish"; "rough military finish"; "blued, sandblast finish"; "parkerized finish" - note the lower case p; "military black magic finish", "non-light reflecting finish"; etc.) but after the aforementioned date all were Black Magic.

Parkerizing was only used for about one week during June of 1942, and its use was exclusive to DSC shipped guns.

Regards,
Charlie

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Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

Once again, thanks.
It's always good when a more simple explanation corrects a more complicated one.

Sharing a new purchase, correct me if I'm wrong, calling this a "Pre Victory". There are no US markings, no "US Navy" and no proofs. Serial is 981405. I think this is from the first Navy contract of 20K. In almost 100% condition, this must have missed the war. Additional info welcome.

G2

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That is almost certainly a DSC or US Maritime Comm. gun. And a nice one, too.

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Kevin Williams SWCA1649 HF208

I was told the W could be Dept. of Strategic Services, OSS?

I thought it might be worth getting a letter, as I have not seen this and could not find it mentioned in Pate.

The 42 is a separate issue I think.

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G2:

Your beautiful pre-Victory likely shipped from the factory in May, 1942. I agree with Kwill that it most likely would letter as a DSC authorized shipment or a Maritime Commission gun. Very, very nice piece.

Regards,
Charlie

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Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

Retired W4:

I would encourage you to get a letter on it, although V492220 will not letter as shipped to the O.S.S. The "42" is most likely a form of rack or inventory number marking.

Regards,
Charlie

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Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

I have two for the database. The first one may already be in there.
The first one is a BSR in 38 S&W and has not been converted to 38 spcl.
V623315. Most of the markings are there. If anything was on the top strap it's gone.

The second one is in 38 spcl. Most of its markings are there but the top strap sanded.
V292470.
I know the grips are wrong. I'm thinking about swapping them around.

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Thanks for supplying the pics and data on your two Victories for the Database, UltraCarry45. Every bit helps.

Regards,
Charlie

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Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

Charlie, thanks for the info. You may remember you helped me with one of the post war 2 USMC contract "C" prefix "post Victory" guns. I'll get some pics of that posted.

G2

Howdy Folks,

Recently inherited a Victory from my father, when I originally got it the hammer thumb had been shaved off and it had rubber grips on it, story was he had bought it off a retired police officer back in the 80s who had used it as his duty pistol. Beyond that, I know nothing about it. My brother returned it to WW2 configuration using parts off Numrich and Ebay, so this is how it stands now.

Can't seem to find any proof markings or stamps other than the Made In USA, the S&W logo, S&W on the left hand side of the barrel and 38 S&W Special CTG on the right side of the barrel. The serial number on the bottom of the barrel matches the frame, but nothing else does as far as I am aware, it was in very poor condition when my dad got it years ago and was only recently restored to firing order. Serial number is V5834.

I figured here would be the place to seek some historic information on it. Thanks!

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Hello Torpedo:

Your Victory likely shipped in the June, 1942 time frame. With no property, proof, inspection or acceptance markings my guess would be that it was either a Defense Supplies Corporation shipment or a U.S. Maritime Commission shipment.

HTH.

Regards,
Charlie

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Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

S&W M&P shipped to the Washington DC Navy Yard on 5.28.41 and factory marked “U.S.N.C.P.C” on the butt strap (US Navy Civilian Police Corps). The grips are replacements and are numbered "798544.”

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Thanks for your post, Denny. It's now in the Database. Neat gun!

Regards,
Charlie

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Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

I have serial number V302819. It has seen better days. The barrel has been cut to 2", heavily polished before it was nickeled, and bubba'd to a non-functioning piece. Should someone need some parts, perhaps this could be a donor.

I would like to know when it left the mothership if possible.
Thanks









'

Bo:

It appears that your revolver likely left the factory in the April-May, 1943 time frame.

Can you tell us more about it? What was its original caliber? Are there any markings on the left top strap or the butt (other than the serial number)?

Regards,
Charlie

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Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

Here is a 4 inch Victory Model V228974 in 38 special. Going thru the pages here, I'm guessing it may have shipped in February-March 1943. How is my guess? It's 'U.S. Navy' marked, 'CD' (Civil Defense) marked and also '34' marked which I think is probably a rack number. It is number matching except for the grips.
I found this at an extremely small gunshow this morning and paid $450. I think I did good!
Just curious if anyone can add anything to what I've already mentioned above.

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Hello Kim:

I'd say that you got a heck of a deal on that one.

From the Database I would estimate that your revolver likely shipped in the January-February, 1943 time frame, so you were close.

You asked for additional comments. I can also say that your Victory was shipped under Army Contract W-478-ORD-3091. 20,000 guns were provided by S&W under this contract at a unit price of $28. When this contract was completed the left top strap U.S. NAVY marking disappeared and was replaced with ð U.S. PROPERTY G.H.D., so in that sense your revolver as one of those under contract 3091 was the last of the NAVY-marked breed.

The Civil Defense marking is a post-war addition after the gun left Navy service.

Nice gun. Hope this info is helpful to you.

Regards.
Charlie

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Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

Thanks Charlie. I really appreciate the information. Kim

I posted this in the hand ejector thread and after I saw this thread I thought the OP might like the info.


S/N V694503
Barrel 4"
Fixed sights
Stamping - ð U.S. PROPERTY G.H.D.

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Thank you, RWY. The information on your Victory has been added to the Victory Model Database.

From the Database I can estimate for you that your revolver likely shipped from the factory in the September-October, 1944 time frame.

Regards,
Charlie

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Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

I have a Navy marked victory model, V196771. Anything you can tell me about it?

Sure. Nice looking Navy you have there. Is the left top strap marked U.S. NAVY?

From the Database I can estimate for you that your revolver likely shipped from the factory in the December, 1942 to January, 1943 time frame.

Regards,
Charlie

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Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

Thanks Charlie. Yes, it is marked US NAVY on the top strap.

Right grip, frame butt, Cylinder, extractor star, and bottom of barrel matching V 724926.

Crane, crane access, side plate, matching 87406.

Welcome insight on whether this is a British land lease one (but still chamber 38 S&W and not the 200) and all other background info you can deduce.

* Full Picture Album with all components details *
Album — Postimages

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Yes, it is a British Service Revolver, sent to the UK under the Lend/Lease Act.

For all intents and purposes, the .38 S&W is the .38/200 regardless of what bullet weight was used. The Brits called it the .380 Revolver cartridge.

With that serial number, it is a rather late BSR. It probably shipped late in the year 1944, possibly early in 1945. Charlie might be able to pin it down more closely.

One issue is that in January, 1945, S&W started shipping the modified version with the new sliding hammer block safety and the serial number would have started with SV. But I'm not aware of any of those that were BSRs. Moreover, shipments to England stopped at about the same time.

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

Greetings! New to the forum here. Just picked up a couple Victory models and would like to add them to the database and also get more info about them. Any additional information someone could provide would be greatly appreciated! Posting pics of the first one. Will post pics of the second one once I have cleaned her up : )

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On V724926 I would place the likely ship date as November, 1944.

Regards,
Charlie

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Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215